Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 57

Thread: Got Stopped Open Carrying Today by an Atlanta PD Officer

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    9

    Got Stopped Open Carrying Today by an Atlanta PD Officer

    I go to Georgia Tech and the areas surrounding Tech are questionable, as a lot of you already know. Anyway, stopped at a BP gas station after class and as i'm waling to the building this cop waves me over to his car, while he sat in it, and asks me for my weapon permit. i'm normally an ******* when i feel disrespected and most probably wont in this case but i just dont talk to people i dont know who dont even get up or say hi before they start asking me questions. Anyway, i told him to get out of his car and talk to me man to man and not sit on his ass requesting something he has no right to request. he got out of his car so quick that i though he was gonna tackle me but, surprisingly, he was angry but calm. after i got his name and badge number and pulled out my handy Bill of Rights, i carry on me at all times which has a part of the 2nd and 4th amendment highligted, and gave it to him, he asks if i am not going to cooperate. anyway, i didnt give him my licence or my weapon permit but wasted about 5 minutes standing in parking lot of a gas station while he called someone and found out that i dont have to provide him with anything. he did get mad and closed his window and gave me that hand wave, you know, go away wave. i get excited when i feel like my actions might save some other man 5 minutes of his day dealing with a LEO that does not understand the law.

    also, if you read this and know about the 1000ft school zone law(no weapons within 1000 ft of a school), just wanted to confirm that the 308 did change that. i read a lot of it today and that is what it seemed but would like confirmation.

    thanks and Semper Fi
    Last edited by dosovm; 04-25-2012 at 09:55 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,096
    Wow. That's what we need to promote opencarry. Not.

  3. #3
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    mayberry, nc
    Posts
    2,258
    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Wow. That's what we need to promote opencarry. Not.
    What???
    i think you did the right thing. keep on carrying
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    You did exactly the right thing.
    The cop knew it, and he resented the fact that he had no authority over your legal actions; hence 'the wave'.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 04-25-2012 at 10:28 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Wow. That's what we need to promote opencarry. Not.
    i would like to hear of a better way, really. i still see things with the eyes of a child, i know that. i've never been in any real trouble and never learned a proper way to speak with a police officer, i get a bit uncomfortable, sometimes to edgy. one thing i know is that all men want to be treated as men and that is what i do to the best of my ability. either way, i would really love to hear how you would have handled such a situation

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by dosovm View Post
    i would like to hear of a better way, really. i still see things with the eyes of a child, i know that. i've never been in any real trouble and never learned a proper way to speak with a police officer, i get a bit uncomfortable, sometimes to edgy. one thing i know is that all men want to be treated as men and that is what i do to the best of my ability. either way, i would really love to hear how you would have handled such a situation
    i just read my initial post and it does seem like i'm being the disrespectful one while he is simply asking for my ID. i guess i need to learn a better way to communicate cause i felt that he was disrespecting me pretty much the whole time but it came out as i was the one starting trouble

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Wow. That's what we need to promote opencarry. Not.
    Well then, by all means, just go right ahead and throw up your hands, drop your pants, and lick your lips, then do whatever the officer "requests".

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    1,552

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Wow. That's what we need to promote opencarry. Not.
    For once, I will have to disagree with you. I don't think the OP did anything one bit wrong. The officer was demanding something he had no right to demand under the law, the OP knew it, and didn't give up an inch of his liberties.

    Thomas Jefferson would be damn proud.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by dosovm View Post
    SNIP he asks if i am not going to cooperate.
    "Oh, I'm a patriotic American, officer. I will cooperate with you to the full extent required by our laws." (followed by silense or further exercise of rights)

    Basically, the cooperation gambit is an attempt to bypass your rights. As though cooperation is senior to rights. Yeah. Right.
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-26-2012 at 12:30 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,605
    Quote Originally Posted by dosovm View Post
    i just read my initial post and it does seem like i'm being the disrespectful one while he is simply asking for my ID. i guess i need to learn a better way to communicate cause i felt that he was disrespecting me pretty much the whole time but it came out as i was the one starting trouble
    A "no thank you" with a smile would have accomplished the same thing.

    Even tone of voice, relaxed body language, generally polite demeanor, but delivering the same end product would have made the event less confrontational.

    We are all actors on a stage - a polished performance takes time to develop but is worth the effort.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by dosovm View Post
    i just read my initial post and it does seem like i'm being the disrespectful one while he is simply asking for my ID. i guess i need to learn a better way to communicate cause i felt that he was disrespecting me pretty much the whole time but it came out as i was the one starting trouble
    Don't criticize yourself too quickly.


    First, you were seriously disrespected.

    What kind of arrogant ass waves someone over to their car? I've come across this in OCDO reports before. I remember a report of a cop at a counter in restaurant waving an OCer over to him.

    My impulse would be to almost derisively ask, "Oh? Is that how you initiate a contact, officer? Oh, that was professional. Gimmeyourbadgenumber." "You want me, copper, you come get me. I certainly don't consent to walking over there and talking to you." I'm not advocating that, but I wouldn't criticize anybody who said it.




    Second, any time a cop asks or demands an identity document from a free man who is doing nothing to warrant suspicion it is a serious contempt for that free man's rights and dignity. While it is not the best nor recommended response, indignation is not an inappropriate reaction.


    Just because you were a little noisier or harsher than the cop does not mean the cop was in the right. We've seen cops walk all over people's rights while being oh-so polite. Politeness is definitely not the standard. Its just a vehicle to accomplish something.
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-26-2012 at 12:43 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,958
    Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    God's Country, Missouri
    Posts
    1,279
    Just my 2 cents:

    I don't think you were as bad as you might think. Could have been better.....but we can all say the same of ourselves. Like Grape paraphrases above, "We are all actors on a stage". I personally look at every "encounter" as: The Practice Run......for the next encounter. While most "errors" (I can't really say errors, because you didn't really do anything with a set definition of "wrong".) made by people during their first interaction tend to lean toward the "cave in and completely submit to the officer's every whim", your encounter seems to lean toward the "heavy on confrontational attitude".

    The key is to adjust our responses to be perceived as cooperative and polite, while still getting the point across FIRMLY that we're not to be trifled with or railroaded into forfeiting our rights, much less our dignity. (Hence I refer to each "encounter" as a practice run for the next. = Fine tuning or "adjustment" of my response.)

    By being confrontational, OCer's risk crossing the line (which every officer has) into, "Screw this." Then he simply asserts his authority by pushing his knowledge of how to be a complete ass to the furthest extreme without breaking the guidelines of the law he has to adhere to.". You can be examined, questioned, have your serial number run, be made to wait for a supervisor, the officer can figure out ways to cook up probable cause, RAS, and numerous other manners of hassling you.

    I have personally found that the ideal way to handle "encounters" is to go "over the top" with politeness. The more of an ass the officer is, the more I smile and smarm up the "YES, SIR!'s". I can "YES, SIR!" someone to death. I can be so agreeably nice and overwhelmingly cordial, that the officer will melt in the face of my warm, fuzzy hospitality. If the officer is sincere and simply trying to answer a question he may legitimately have about my armament and wish to have a voluntary interaction, it will appear as if I'm super nice and cooperative. If the officer is, instead, trying to be a jerk, I will come off as extremely facetious and just as much of a sarcastic ass as he is. It will be hard to mistake the reply to his digging, confrontational, and purposefully offensive questioning with overpolite and super friendly warmth as being other than facetious. Yet, this will offer him no excuse to "escalate" the encounter that the "mirroring" and return of his hostility would invite. It may, in fact, cause him to wonder about his own confrontational attitude afterward. (Although, unlikely).

    The best thing you can do is politely ask, "Am I being detained...SIR?". The answer will be yes, or no. This will clue you in on option A) If you are being detained, utilize your right to remain silent. or option B) If you are not being detained: you are not being detained. Walk away.

  14. #14
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
    Really, showing DL on demand. So, that line of thinking requires one to show ID upon demand when getting into or out of a vehicle if the LEO suspects that you are the vehicle oporator.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  15. #15
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen
    What kind of arrogant ass waves someone over to their car? I've come across this in OCDO reports before. I remember a report of a cop at a counter in restaurant waving an OCer over to him.
    If simply ignoring it isn't an option for whatever reason, how about this:
    Cop waves you over, you hold up one hand toward him in a brief/casual "stop" motion while shaking your head "no", looking where you're going, & saying "not interested".
    Works for other people on the street with whom you don't want to have a conversation.
    Perfectly polite. They asked, you answered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27
    The best thing you can do is politely ask, "Am I being detained... SIR?".
    I think it's another Citizen recommendation that the best thing to ask is
    "Why am I being detained?" [Throw in a "sir" if you want.]
    If you have to ask, you are being detained.
    That question puts them on notice that you feel you are being detained.
    They have to come up with a legally-acceptable reason why, & if they give you any reason they're admitting they are detaining you, so your right to remain silent is even better protected by laws.

    If they figure that out, or are startled by the question & say that they're not detaining you, say goodbye & walk away.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    1,276
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
    Please read up on GEORGIA law before speaking on a subject you obviously know nothing about. You can start with the fact that Georgia does not issue a "permit". Second, read "State vs Jones" and come back and tell us how LE is allowed to detain and require we show our Weapons Carry LICENSE.

    Or simply CITE TO AUTHORITY the statue in GEORGIA that requires we show ID on request.
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

  17. #17
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,968
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
    I guess you are truly screwed if you don't drive and have a DL if your asked for one....sarcasm.

    leave your DL in the car, if asked for it politly remind the officer that your not driving so you don't have a DL on you....duh

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605
    [Post Omitted]
    Last edited by aadvark; 04-26-2012 at 09:46 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    1,276
    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    KingFish:

    Georgia Law 16-11-129(e) Provides The Following: It SHALL BE Required that ANY License Holder under This Code Section have in His or Her Possession His or Her Valid License whenever He or She is Carrying a
    Weapon under The Authority Granted by This Code Section, AND His or Her Failure to do so SHALL be Prima-Facie Evidence of a Violation of Code Section 16-11-126.

    There was a Piece of Legislation that would have Repealed This Requirement, but This Bill did NOT Pass.

    aadvark
    aadvark, I know you know better. Please highlight the section of ANY GA code that states a GWL must be presented at request of LE.

    Please also read State vs Jones and with that in mind tell me us that LE may demand to see a license with no RAS or PC of a crime being committed (carrying a handgun is NOT a crime in Georgia).

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    1,552

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    KingFish:

    Georgia Law 16-11-129(e) Provides The Following: It SHALL BE Required that ANY License Holder under This Code Section have in His or Her Possession His or Her Valid License whenever He or She is Carrying a
    Weapon under The Authority Granted by This Code Section, AND His or Her Failure to do so SHALL be Prima-Facie Evidence of a Violation of Code Section 16-11-126.

    There was a Piece of Legislation that would have Repealed This Requirement, but This Bill did NOT Pass.

    aadvark
    But since the officer has no reason to believe that the citizen is carrying a weapon without a permit, wouldn't he need some other reasonable suspicion of an actual crime?

    Wasn't there a court case that said police can't pull over vehicles simply to check if the driver is licensed?

    ETA: Found it. Delaware v. Prouse, 440 US 648(1979)

    2. Except where there is at least articulable and reasonable suspicion that a motorist is unlicensed or that an automobile is not registered, or that either the vehicle or an occupant is otherwise subject to seizure for violation of law, stopping an automobile and detaining the driver in order to check his driver's license and the registration of the automobile are unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment. Pp. 440 U. S. 653-663.
    It seems that the same principle would apply to stopping a citizen, not observably violating the law, merely to check for his license to carry. It would seem that the principle would apply even more so, as the OP was on foot at the time the unlawful detention began, and the current [incorrect] jurisprudence is that "driving is a privilege." Walking, however, is not [yet].
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 04-26-2012 at 06:06 PM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Georgia law requires a GWL to be in one's possession while carrying.
    The law does not (as the older version of the law did) require it to be carried on one's person.
    No section of the Georgia Code mandates that the GWL must be presented to law enforcement at any time, it is up to them to 'make the case' that a GWL was not found.

    The question could easily be asked, Can a case be made that a kilo of cocaine in the trunk of one's car parked 100 meters away in a parking lot is in one's possession while a valid GWL laying atop the kilo of coke is somehow Not in one's possession?

    Do I want to be the test-case? Not necessarily but, if somehow found with my GWL left in my car while I'm having a frozen cappuccino frappe with extra cream, I'm Definitely going to have my attorney raise that as a point.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 04-26-2012 at 07:36 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605
    KingFish:

    I can Learn to Better Appreciate The Merits of your Argument in Light of Case Law Presented under State vs. Jones.

    Therefore..., I will Remove My Aforementioned Post, and I will Incorporate The Reasoning that You Offer Pursuant to The Case which You have Cited.

    Although The Statute that I Previously Cited does Exist, I Note that, The Case Law Findings in State vs. Jones Clarify that I Incorrectly Interpreted its Contents.

    aadvark
    Last edited by aadvark; 04-26-2012 at 09:48 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    God's Country, Missouri
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    I think it's another Citizen recommendation that the best thing to ask is
    "Why am I being detained?"

    That question puts them on notice that you feel you are being detained.

    They have to come up with a legally-acceptable reason why, & if they give you any reason they're admitting they are detaining you, so your right to remain silent is even better protected by laws.
    Excellent tip, MKEgal! Makes great sense. Thanks for sharing. I'll definately update my repertoir of reasoned responses.

    Officer: "Hey, come over here for a second."
    Me: "Why am I being detained?".......

    KAPOW!

    By asking this question the officer is led down a road where ANY answer given is detrimental to the officer's intent (Whatever it is):

    A) Officer: "Well, because...(insert anything)" = YOU HAVE OFFICIALLY BEEN DETAINED BECAUSE THE OFFICER HAS IMPLICITLY ADMITTED IT.

    B) Officer: "Well, I'm not detaining you" or "You're not being detained" = WALK AWAY.

    It doesn't matter what the answer is, it puts you in the driver's seat.

    I like it. Good stuff.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    You did exactly the right thing.
    The cop knew it, and he resented the fact that he had no authority over your legal actions; hence 'the wave'.
    Just wave back, smile, and keep walking. Or better yet go buy him a doughnut, I am a cop and love doughnuts, never turn one down, in off season.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
    As another has stated, there is no statutory law by which the officer may demand or the person submit for examination the GWL.

    If you remember your history permits began as a way to restrict certain subsets of the population from exercising their rights. Thankfully, GeorgiaCarry.org has helped eliminate much of the 140 year old Jim Crow laws.

    To the OP: you did just fine.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •