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Got Stopped Open Carrying Today by an Atlanta PD Officer

dosovm

New member
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Mar 27, 2012
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9
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Atlanta, GA
I go to Georgia Tech and the areas surrounding Tech are questionable, as a lot of you already know. Anyway, stopped at a BP gas station after class and as i'm waling to the building this cop waves me over to his car, while he sat in it, and asks me for my weapon permit. i'm normally an ******* when i feel disrespected and most probably wont in this case but i just dont talk to people i dont know who dont even get up or say hi before they start asking me questions. Anyway, i told him to get out of his car and talk to me man to man and not sit on his ass requesting something he has no right to request. he got out of his car so quick that i though he was gonna tackle me but, surprisingly, he was angry but calm. after i got his name and badge number and pulled out my handy Bill of Rights, i carry on me at all times which has a part of the 2nd and 4th amendment highligted, and gave it to him, he asks if i am not going to cooperate. anyway, i didnt give him my licence or my weapon permit but wasted about 5 minutes standing in parking lot of a gas station while he called someone and found out that i dont have to provide him with anything. he did get mad and closed his window and gave me that hand wave, you know, go away wave. i get excited when i feel like my actions might save some other man 5 minutes of his day dealing with a LEO that does not understand the law.

also, if you read this and know about the 1000ft school zone law(no weapons within 1000 ft of a school), just wanted to confirm that the 308 did change that. i read a lot of it today and that is what it seemed but would like confirmation.

thanks and Semper Fi
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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Cumming, Georgia, USA
You did exactly the right thing.
The cop knew it, and he resented the fact that he had no authority over your legal actions; hence 'the wave'.
 
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dosovm

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Mar 27, 2012
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Atlanta, GA
Wow. That's what we need to promote opencarry. Not.

i would like to hear of a better way, really. i still see things with the eyes of a child, i know that. i've never been in any real trouble and never learned a proper way to speak with a police officer, i get a bit uncomfortable, sometimes to edgy. one thing i know is that all men want to be treated as men and that is what i do to the best of my ability. either way, i would really love to hear how you would have handled such a situation
 

dosovm

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Mar 27, 2012
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Atlanta, GA
i would like to hear of a better way, really. i still see things with the eyes of a child, i know that. i've never been in any real trouble and never learned a proper way to speak with a police officer, i get a bit uncomfortable, sometimes to edgy. one thing i know is that all men want to be treated as men and that is what i do to the best of my ability. either way, i would really love to hear how you would have handled such a situation

i just read my initial post and it does seem like i'm being the disrespectful one while he is simply asking for my ID. i guess i need to learn a better way to communicate cause i felt that he was disrespecting me pretty much the whole time but it came out as i was the one starting trouble
 

ManInBlack

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Jul 2, 2006
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SW Idaho
Wow. That's what we need to promote opencarry. Not.

For once, I will have to disagree with you. I don't think the OP did anything one bit wrong. The officer was demanding something he had no right to demand under the law, the OP knew it, and didn't give up an inch of his liberties.

Thomas Jefferson would be damn proud.
 

Citizen

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Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP he asks if i am not going to cooperate.

"Oh, I'm a patriotic American, officer. I will cooperate with you to the full extent required by our laws." (followed by silense or further exercise of rights)

Basically, the cooperation gambit is an attempt to bypass your rights. As though cooperation is senior to rights. Yeah. Right.
 
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Grapeshot

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Valhalla
i just read my initial post and it does seem like i'm being the disrespectful one while he is simply asking for my ID. i guess i need to learn a better way to communicate cause i felt that he was disrespecting me pretty much the whole time but it came out as i was the one starting trouble

A "no thank you" with a smile would have accomplished the same thing.

Even tone of voice, relaxed body language, generally polite demeanor, but delivering the same end product would have made the event less confrontational.

We are all actors on a stage - a polished performance takes time to develop but is worth the effort. :)
 

Citizen

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i just read my initial post and it does seem like i'm being the disrespectful one while he is simply asking for my ID. i guess i need to learn a better way to communicate cause i felt that he was disrespecting me pretty much the whole time but it came out as i was the one starting trouble

Don't criticize yourself too quickly.


First, you were seriously disrespected.

What kind of arrogant ass waves someone over to their car? I've come across this in OCDO reports before. I remember a report of a cop at a counter in restaurant waving an OCer over to him.

My impulse would be to almost derisively ask, "Oh? Is that how you initiate a contact, officer? Oh, that was professional. Gimmeyourbadgenumber." "You want me, copper, you come get me. I certainly don't consent to walking over there and talking to you." I'm not advocating that, but I wouldn't criticize anybody who said it.




Second, any time a cop asks or demands an identity document from a free man who is doing nothing to warrant suspicion it is a serious contempt for that free man's rights and dignity. While it is not the best nor recommended response, indignation is not an inappropriate reaction.


Just because you were a little noisier or harsher than the cop does not mean the cop was in the right. We've seen cops walk all over people's rights while being oh-so polite. Politeness is definitely not the standard. Its just a vehicle to accomplish something.
 
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Sonora Rebel

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Gone
Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
 

Superlite27

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Jul 12, 2007
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God's Country, Missouri
Just my 2 cents:

I don't think you were as bad as you might think. Could have been better.....but we can all say the same of ourselves. Like Grape paraphrases above, "We are all actors on a stage". I personally look at every "encounter" as: The Practice Run......for the next encounter. While most "errors" (I can't really say errors, because you didn't really do anything with a set definition of "wrong".) made by people during their first interaction tend to lean toward the "cave in and completely submit to the officer's every whim", your encounter seems to lean toward the "heavy on confrontational attitude".

The key is to adjust our responses to be perceived as cooperative and polite, while still getting the point across FIRMLY that we're not to be trifled with or railroaded into forfeiting our rights, much less our dignity. (Hence I refer to each "encounter" as a practice run for the next. = Fine tuning or "adjustment" of my response.)

By being confrontational, OCer's risk crossing the line (which every officer has) into, "Screw this." Then he simply asserts his authority by pushing his knowledge of how to be a complete ass to the furthest extreme without breaking the guidelines of the law he has to adhere to.". You can be examined, questioned, have your serial number run, be made to wait for a supervisor, the officer can figure out ways to cook up probable cause, RAS, and numerous other manners of hassling you.

I have personally found that the ideal way to handle "encounters" is to go "over the top" with politeness. The more of an ass the officer is, the more I smile and smarm up the "YES, SIR!'s". I can "YES, SIR!" someone to death. I can be so agreeably nice and overwhelmingly cordial, that the officer will melt in the face of my warm, fuzzy hospitality. If the officer is sincere and simply trying to answer a question he may legitimately have about my armament and wish to have a voluntary interaction, it will appear as if I'm super nice and cooperative. If the officer is, instead, trying to be a jerk, I will come off as extremely facetious and just as much of a sarcastic ass as he is. It will be hard to mistake the reply to his digging, confrontational, and purposefully offensive questioning with overpolite and super friendly warmth as being other than facetious. Yet, this will offer him no excuse to "escalate" the encounter that the "mirroring" and return of his hostility would invite. It may, in fact, cause him to wonder about his own confrontational attitude afterward. (Although, unlikely).

The best thing you can do is politely ask, "Am I being detained...SIR?". The answer will be yes, or no. This will clue you in on option A) If you are being detained, utilize your right to remain silent. or option B) If you are not being detained: you are not being detained. Walk away.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
Really, showing DL on demand. So, that line of thinking requires one to show ID upon demand when getting into or out of a vehicle if the LEO suspects that you are the vehicle oporator.
 

MKEgal

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Jan 8, 2010
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in front of my computer, WI
Citizen said:
What kind of arrogant ass waves someone over to their car? I've come across this in OCDO reports before. I remember a report of a cop at a counter in restaurant waving an OCer over to him.
If simply ignoring it isn't an option for whatever reason, how about this:
Cop waves you over, you hold up one hand toward him in a brief/casual "stop" motion while shaking your head "no", looking where you're going, & saying "not interested".
Works for other people on the street with whom you don't want to have a conversation.
Perfectly polite. They asked, you answered.

Superlite27 said:
The best thing you can do is politely ask, "Am I being detained... SIR?".
I think it's another Citizen recommendation that the best thing to ask is
"Why am I being detained?" [Throw in a "sir" if you want.]
If you have to ask, you are being detained.
That question puts them on notice that you feel you are being detained.
They have to come up with a legally-acceptable reason why, & if they give you any reason they're admitting they are detaining you, so your right to remain silent is even better protected by laws.

If they figure that out, or are startled by the question & say that they're not detaining you, say goodbye & walk away.
 

Kingfish

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Apr 10, 2007
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Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.
Please read up on GEORGIA law before speaking on a subject you obviously know nothing about. You can start with the fact that Georgia does not issue a "permit". Second, read "State vs Jones" and come back and tell us how LE is allowed to detain and require we show our Weapons Carry LICENSE.

Or simply CITE TO AUTHORITY the statue in GEORGIA that requires we show ID on request.
(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
 

DocWalker

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Jul 6, 2008
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Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Georgia requires a permit to carry. Regardless of the perception, it was a legitimate inquiry on the part of the LEO when observing the carry. It's no difference than showing a drivers license on demand. All this 'diss' stuff is juvenile thug culture crap. 'Not surprising that many of you get into the jackpot with these anti-cop 'sovereign person' attitudes. Yeah... there are onerous JBT attitudes among cops but this doesn't appear to be one of them.

I guess you are truly screwed if you don't drive and have a DL if your asked for one....sarcasm.

leave your DL in the car, if asked for it politly remind the officer that your not driving so you don't have a DL on you....duh
 

Kingfish

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Apr 10, 2007
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Atlanta, Georgia, USA
KingFish:

Georgia Law 16-11-129(e) Provides The Following: It SHALL BE Required that ANY License Holder under This Code Section have in His or Her Possession His or Her Valid License whenever He or She is Carrying a
Weapon under The Authority Granted by This Code Section, AND His or Her Failure to do so SHALL be Prima-Facie Evidence of a Violation of Code Section 16-11-126.

There was a Piece of Legislation that would have Repealed This Requirement, but This Bill did NOT Pass.

aadvark
aadvark, I know you know better. Please highlight the section of ANY GA code that states a GWL must be presented at request of LE.

Please also read State vs Jones and with that in mind tell me us that LE may demand to see a license with no RAS or PC of a crime being committed (carrying a handgun is NOT a crime in Georgia).
 

ManInBlack

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Jul 2, 2006
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SW Idaho
KingFish:

Georgia Law 16-11-129(e) Provides The Following: It SHALL BE Required that ANY License Holder under This Code Section have in His or Her Possession His or Her Valid License whenever He or She is Carrying a
Weapon under The Authority Granted by This Code Section, AND His or Her Failure to do so SHALL be Prima-Facie Evidence of a Violation of Code Section 16-11-126.

There was a Piece of Legislation that would have Repealed This Requirement, but This Bill did NOT Pass.

aadvark

But since the officer has no reason to believe that the citizen is carrying a weapon without a permit, wouldn't he need some other reasonable suspicion of an actual crime?

Wasn't there a court case that said police can't pull over vehicles simply to check if the driver is licensed?

ETA: Found it. Delaware v. Prouse, 440 US 648(1979)

2. Except where there is at least articulable and reasonable suspicion that a motorist is unlicensed or that an automobile is not registered, or that either the vehicle or an occupant is otherwise subject to seizure for violation of law, stopping an automobile and detaining the driver in order to check his driver's license and the registration of the automobile are unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment. Pp. 440 U. S. 653-663.

It seems that the same principle would apply to stopping a citizen, not observably violating the law, merely to check for his license to carry. It would seem that the principle would apply even more so, as the OP was on foot at the time the unlawful detention began, and the current [incorrect] jurisprudence is that "driving is a privilege." Walking, however, is not [yet].
 
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