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Thread: De-stressing your gun(s)

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Unhappy De-stressing your gun(s)

    Who here has/would want their guns to be de-stressed?

    If so how much would you/did you pay to have it done?

    For those who don't know what I am talking about it's the whole point of cryo-dipping a gun is to relieve stresses in the metals or de-stress the parts. It's reported to increase accuracy, firearm life, and make cleaning easier.

    I am wondering that is why I am asking in the off topic area.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    "Cyro-dipping"? does that imply freezing, or dipping the sidearm in liquid nitrogen/hydrogen/or what ever very cold liquid? Wouldn't that re-arrange the molecules of the steel and components in a way to weaken and make it brittle?

    Only destressing I do to my EDC weapon of choice, is stripping it bare, soaking in high quality gun lube and oils, and giving it a good old fashion gun bath. Kinda like how we all take a long hot bubble bath to destress
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    "Cyro-dipping"? does that imply freezing, or dipping the sidearm in liquid nitrogen/hydrogen/or what ever very cold liquid? Wouldn't that re-arrange the molecules of the steel and components in a way to weaken and make it brittle?

    Only destressing I do to my EDC weapon of choice, is stripping it bare, soaking in high quality gun lube and oils, and giving it a good old fashion gun bath. Kinda like how we all take a long hot bubble bath to destress

    When you heat metals to a certain point (each alloy is different) and then don't get them to cool perfectly evenly and then that uneven cooling causes stresses to form. A good example is the Katana sword it is intentionally stressed to cause it to form it's shape when quenching it. Once quenched it can be de-stressed in a way that will allow it to keep it's shape. When you do machining on a piece of metal that causes stresses. In any sort of barrel stresses are intoduced during the machining process. So what happens is as a bullet is moving down a barrel the barrel vibrates. The longer the barrel the more noticeable it becomes. But as it vibrates from the bullet it starts to warm up. The different levels of stresses cause it to change in vibration enough that a group can open up greatly and the wear on the parts starts to go up. Once the stresses in the metal have been relieved the harmonics start to even out so the the temp has less effect on bullet placement. It also helps the bullet move down the barrel more consistently improving groupings. This is just as true with the old smooth bore pistols as is it with the modern rifled pistols.

    All this be come more evident the longer the shot distance and the longer the barrel. Even some tank cannons get de-stressed to improve their accuracy.

    Good engine builders let new cast iron blocks sit for years to use an age destressing method that works for cast iron so their engines run better and last longer.

    Some manufactures do a thermal destressing of barrels in the factory.

    So, sorry, the oil bath does not destress the metal unless you're heating it to the correct temp/time to destress the alloys that are used in your gun(s).

    I know when I've done hardening I have to de-stress my quenches at 400F for 4 hours for I think it was 4340 steel.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 04-27-2012 at 07:43 AM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    This may sound naive, but don't the manufacturers do this during their processes? I personally wouldn't see the need unless I was in a high level competition shoot of some sort.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I play classical music for one hour, in a dimly lit room where it is just my pistola and the music...oh, and some aromatherapy candles and incense too. Works wonders, the pistola seems to work better after that.
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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    This may sound naive, but don't the manufacturers do this during their processes?
    Yes. OP it's not like the manufacturers send the pieces straight from CNC/the forging press to assembly. They do the kinds of things you're talking about. The quality of their metalcrafting is part of the reputation and quality of the end result, and therefore the price. If, after manufacture is complete, your gun can benefit from anything you're talking about in this thread, then you should have bought a better-made gun in the first place.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I don't see how freezing your gun can help de-stress it in any way. In a solid form the atoms are locked in their structure, so freezing it would just make their movement less. Think about it like you're in a packed concert, you can't go anywhere but you can wave your arms. Now if everything gets closer the movement is just restricted a bit more. This effect is reduced as your gun gets warmer. So unless you plan on shooting a frozen gun then it would be POINTLESS to just freeze it and let it thaw.

    When metal is warm enough to turn to a liquid the molecules can flow mostly free. So people that is working metal heat the metal so that the molecules are freed up so they can be re arranged and then quench the metal to set the molecules in the desired shape. This can potentially leave stresses in the metal, so then you can heat it up til it reaches a lesser desired temperature and repeat the process, this allows the molecules to relieve the stress.


    I think the process OP is talking about is probably a money racket. Preying on the ignorance of the masses.

    OC4M, in my opinion, has it right. Give your Daily Carry a good massage and let it take the next day off. Should relieve all the stress just knowing you care.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 04-27-2012 at 11:56 AM.
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    Indeed^ and unless you are a sniper, frequently called-upon to take long-range shots on pinpoint targets with a precision rifle that has put a good many rounds down-range, I doubt this will be of much use to the average hand-gun owner.
    A money racket, a best.

  9. #9
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Read a bit of metallurgy and on heat treating. Start with the Wikipedia. Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting world view.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Read a bit of metallurgy and on heat treating. Start with the Wikipedia. Believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting world view.
    Who are you talking to?
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Who are you talking to?
    The OP it seems; even though it is a waste of time.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    The OP it seems; even though it is a waste of time.
    I hope so, because then he would be right. : )

    There is a whole lot of claims out there just to get money. Remember those things that were advertised on TV to detox your body? You put them on your feet before you go to sleep?

    I group this idea in with those.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    "De-Stressing" a gun sounds like some sort of snake oil remedy or other gimmick.

    I dont know what type of Firearms the OP owns, carries. But for me Sig Sauer and Glock dont need to be messed with.
    Hell, my 229 and 226 have a Stainless Steel slide that you could use to hammer down railroad spikes.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    The only destressing that I am concerned about is my own by practice, practice, practice
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    "De-Stressing" a gun sounds like some sort of snake oil remedy or other gimmick.

    I dont know what type of Firearms the OP owns, carries. But for me Sig Sauer and Glock dont need to be messed with.
    Hell, my 229 and 226 have a Stainless Steel slide that you could use to hammer down railroad spikes.
    There is almost no metal in a Glock to be sure.

    It's not a snake oil think at all really. It a big thing in machine shops that are trying to maintain a tolerance of +-.00001 or tigher especially, if you have harden the material before it gets sent to a customer.

    Some barrel companies do random stress testing on the barrels they manufacture. Shilen is one of them I called and asked them about it they have only used thermal (IE they heat there barrels up to some temp and hold it there for a set time and proscribed cool down) de-stressing methods. They have stress tested their finished barrels. So if you buy a barrel and have it threaded (stress), tapered (stress), etc you should de-stress it once you have finished it.

    Same with automotive parts. Valves, valve springs, engine block, pistons, piston rings, cam, crank, con rods, etc are manufactured in a high stress manner. IF you de-stress the parts either before or after install the engine runs smoother. Build an engine run it for awhile check fuel consumption. Have it de-stressed while in your car even and check fuel consumption afterwards. If you have the equipment then pull heads and check cylinder wear rates.

    I was just asking who has done it with their handguns and how much they paid for it. If they liked the results etc.
    I was pointing out that cryo-dipping is one method. While cryo-dipping is reported to work on may other things besides metals I know it's not cheap. I am focusing more on the metal question.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 04-28-2012 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Happy now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    ...
    It's not a snake oil think at all really. It a big thing in machine shops that I are trying to maintain a +-.00001 or less especially if you have harden the material before it gets sent to a customer.
    ....
    Maybe you should focus on proper grammar and sentence structure. I know its not the cool thing to do in your elementary school, but it is a critical skill when interacting with adults and others through written means.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    Maybe you should focus on proper grammar and sentence structure. I know its not the cool thing to do in your elementary school, but it is a critical skill when interacting with adults and others through written means.
    The funny thing is you understand what they had written. And yet you complain. You would argue with a possum.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    As said in the Blues Brothers movie; " I hate Illinois Nazi's" Or in this case, Grammar Nazi's (Don't really care for the spelling Nazi's either)
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    The funny thing is you understand what they had written. And yet you complain. You would argue with a possum.
    And what if that possum was a member of the Harvard Debating Club (possum division)?????
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    There is almost no metal in a Glock to be sure.

    Huh?
    I guess my Glocks must be counterfeit ones because the entire slide and barrel are metal.

    Maybe thats why I keep getting stopped by the TSA when I try to sneak through airport security with my Glocks.
    Those Rap songs and anti gunners all promised me that Glocks had no metal and cant be picked up by a magnetometer!

    Damn, I should have listened!
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  21. #21
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    There is no benefit from freezing and thawing a metal that started out at room temperature.

    Permanent damage can occur in bi-metal parts, such as some welds, or where a harder metal has been bonded to a softer metal for durability. due to different coefficients of expansion, one metal contracts more, faster, than the other. This can cause a permanent bend or separation of the metals.

    It can also damage the finish of coated parts. If the metal contracts more or faster, during freezing, than the coating, the coating may crack and/or delaminate from the part.

    Most weapon manufacturers use parts that have been properly annealed to reduce OR INDUCE stress where necessary.

    I would demand to see the study that proves the benefits advertised before wasting money on this "service". At a minimum, contact your firearm manufacturer for a reccomendation before you do something as silly as freezing your gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    The funny thing is you understand what they had written. And yet you complain. You would argue with a possum.
    +1

  23. #23
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    There is no benefit from freezing and thawing a metal that started out at room temperature.
    A solid is already frozen.

    The temperatures in heat treating steel alloys may be as low as (cryo-treatment) -200C 78K to 1600C. It is a legitimate process, the question is of its appropriateness in an item as carefully engineered as a gun.

    Like the debates here of the fatigue life of a spring, it is susceptible to a bit of learning.

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    --snap--

    Like the debates here of the fatigue life of a spring, it is susceptible to a bit of learning.
    Old wives tales and urban myths not withstanding, subject to memory.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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  25. #25
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    Huh?
    I guess my Glocks must be counterfeit ones because the entire slide and barrel are metal.

    Maybe thats why I keep getting stopped by the TSA when I try to sneak through airport security with my Glocks.
    Those Rap songs and anti gunners all promised me that Glocks had no metal and cant be picked up by a magnetometer!

    Damn, I should have listened!
    The frame is plastic. The barre and top slides are all metal... I carry Glocks. It was an over generalization. Not to taken so literally. Geeze...
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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