This is an example of MOC leadership?

Hi, I'm new to the site. I have friends and family who are both members of Michigan Open Carry and they have talked to me about joining. I read the site very regularly and have often found it a great source of information. But today, after reading some threads, I decided that I will never give a dime of my hard earned money to MOC. I've registered on this site and am making my first post to tell you why.

Scot623 - Aren't you an officer of MOC? I wonder why it is that you are so hypocritical? You pick and choose who you want to be nice to and offer helpful information to. Then others you ridicule and offend. I have read many posts from you over the past few months, and honestly, you just seem bitter. Did someone pee in your Wheaties? In the bank oc thread RVD was asking a legitimate question. One that I'm sure would be useful to others besides him, but instead of offering an answer to the question, you call him out for something that happened in the past and say he shouldn't carry? How in the world was that helpful??

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?102322-bank

Then there is how you treat Stainless. Yes, I've read about some not great choices he has made. It's really hard not to because you and your cronies sure won't let him forget. But at least he comes on the boards and offers information to people. He doesn't pick and choose who he feels is worthy of his knowledge and ridicule the rest. You try so hard to bully him out of this site and that sad thing is, I think he is actually a better person than you are. When he made a post that you didn't agree with, you ripped him apart and plastered his full name and address on the board. But when the previous president of this organization (MOC) was on the news for having mental health issues and SIX ppos against him, Stainless didn't plaster his name and address all over anywhere. In fact, he posted on the board that he hoped everything worked out for that person. You could take some pointers in how to be a good person from him (Stainless, not the guy with SIX ppos)

I have consistently seen you post negative and degrading posts to people who you obviously don't deem "worthy" of your time. I've seen you break the below rule on numerous occasions.
(9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.

HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE......seems pretty simple to me, but yet an officer can't even follow that simple rule?

I would think that as an officer of MOC, you would not only hold yourself to a higher standard as far as the law goes, but you would actually want to be a decent human being. Guess not.

Now I'm sure this post will be removed or I will get bashed my NCG...whatever and a few others who obviously can't have a thought independent of you, but I felt that you should know how people outside your little "click" actually feel. I'm sure I am not the only person who comes to these boards for info and is appalled by the posts that someone who is supposed to be a "leader" posts.

To - Dr Todd, Jared, Stainless, RVD and the many others who share their knowledge with everyone freely without considering their "worthiness" first, I THANK YOU!

Peace,
Glock Lady

I'm not here to argue but I would like to clear something up. It's not that Scot told him not to carry at all but that he shouldn't carry unless he knows the laws very well. And I agree with him.

scot623 said:

Didn't you get into a dust up about carrying on a college campus? You should know the firearm laws forward and backward. If not, you shouldn't be carrying yet.

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And in RVD's defense he never actually carried on campus. He talked to the police about it but as it turns out he could not do then they made a big deal about him having an empty holster and mag pouch.

Also Glock_Lady should be reminded of this rule

(9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.

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Nice, well thought out intro Glock_lady. Appreciate the personal insight.

It is decidedly better to stick to the facts, than to allow personal prejudice and create dissension.

Not to mention it is also against the rules of this site to bash other gun rights orgs...

Now sometimes we " experienced OCers come off as short, grumpy gruff... whatever" there is a reason... we have seen people get themselves into a mess of trouble by not knowing the laws and making bad decisions. We want to keep them from doing that so sometimes we bark as we have answered the question a million times. Not to mention the fact that if they would read the stickies and MCL's they would know the answer to the question already.

As for the issue with the individual you feel is being picked on... well there is a history of fail that is very extensive... and very little learning from it.

I would suggest you reserve judgement until you get a feel for some of the history around here.

Grapeshot said:

Nice, well thought out intro Glock_lady.

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Love your sarcasm.

DanM said:

Love your sarcasm.

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Who? Me?

Welcome Glock Lady! If You've come here for OC info and education,this is a great place for that.Even though the tit for tats that go on here from time to time may be detrimental to newcomers,I hope You can be patient enough to get the info You're looking for and ignore the youngsters at play.Everyone has their shortcomings! CARRY ON!

Welcome aboard! Nice to see another intelligent, passionate person joining us, and it's really nice to see another woman.
(Esp. one with the good taste to like Glocks.)

autosurgeon said:

I would suggest you reserve judgement until you get a feel for some of the history around here.

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She says she's read the boards for a while.
And obviously she's picked up on a pattern of behaviour which bothers her.

Thanks GlockLady, you are welcome here, and I hope you stay.

autosurgeon said:

Not to mention it is also against the rules of this site to bash other gun rights orgs...

Now sometimes we " experienced OCers come off as short, grumpy gruff... whatever" there is a reason... we have seen people get themselves into a mess of trouble by not knowing the laws and making bad decisions. We want to keep them from doing that so sometimes we bark as we have answered the question a million times. Not to mention the fact that if they would read the stickies and MCL's they would know the answer to the question already.

As for the issue with the individual you feel is being picked on... well there is a history of fail that is very extensive... and very little learning from it.

I would suggest you reserve judgement until you get a feel for some of the history around here.

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Nice try, she wasnt taking pot shots at MOC or OCDO, she was pointing out an obvious, and detrimental attitude of someone on here, addressing the offensive actions more than attacking the person. Her points were articulate and accurate.

Mr. Harris is a MOC's BoD member who has served with dedication and distinction. Not only has he poured in hundreds of hours of his own time to run seminars, organize dinners and other activities to promote open carry in Michigan -- he is also the first board member to have almost served his entire term.

Mr. Harris is my number one volunteer. I am sorry you feel about him the way you do. If that is how you feel, I understand that you may not want to be a part of the organization.

I wish you the best in your path.

Signed,

Current MOC President with no PPOs.

Q, you and GlockLady are both correct.

The only thing I would have to say, aside from while acting like a mature adult we refrain from personal attacks and attacks against other organization based on the actions of one individual, if you think MOC could be ran better....run for a leadership position.

Also the members of MOC and its leadership are not responsible for the actions of an individual, a fact people often forget. As with any organization they advocate acting maturely and responsibly since any member is seen as a representative of the org. However they cannot tell someone how to act, just as employer can't tell you what to do off the clock.

However coming onto the forum and bashing an organization and an individual instead of taking it up with the individual or the organization they are associated with is shameful on your behalf. I welcome you to the forums and appreciate having another fellow ocer on board but I would just ask that in this situation you try to conduct yourself more professionally and maturely

Glock_lady said:

Hi, I'm new to the site. ~~ snip ~~
Peace,
Glock Lady

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Let me offer my own personal Welcome to you Glock Lady, even though for the most part I am still a newbe on this board.

hamaneggs said:

Welcome Glock Lady! If You've come here for OC info and education,this is a great place for that.~~ snip ~~ I hope You can be patient enough to get the info You're looking for and ignore the youngsters at play. Everyone has their shortcomings! CARRY ON!

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I will agree that ODCO is a good if not Great place for finding Open Carry info and am grateful to have finally found my way to this site.

I do find myself needing to ask you about something, though..
To Whom are you referring to with your youngsters comment?
* Those who are completely new to OC and to OCDO;
* Those who have quietly carried for years that are simply new to ODCO;
* Those who have only OCd as long as they have been members of OCDO;
or
* Those who are chronologically not far along in life itself?

What I hope we all can agree on is this: we will have disagreements, this is a certainty, but at the end of the day we all support civil rights and freedoms, so let us remember when humanly possible - to cut the other guy/gal some slack. Hell, I have been less than kind a few times myself. I shall do my very best to take the high road. Carry on

Sent from my Polaroid PMID701i using Tapatalk 2

Yance said:

However coming onto the forum and bashing an organization and an individual instead of taking it up with the individual or the organization they are associated with is shameful on your behalf. I welcome you to the forums and appreciate having another fellow ocer on board but I would just ask that in this situation you try to conduct yourself more professionally and maturely

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Where did she specifically "bash" MOC? She asked a question, which I believe was meant to point out that an individual's conduct reflects poorly on his group. This is simply a fact of life; groups are judged by their membership.

She did point out, specifically, an individual's perceived shortcomings. That is not bashing, either.

Just checking in. Talk amongst yourselves.

ManInBlack said:

Where did she specifically "bash" MOC? She asked a question, which I believe was meant to point out that an individual's conduct reflects poorly on his group. This is simply a fact of life; groups are judged by their membership.

She did point out, specifically, an individual's perceived shortcomings. That is not bashing, either.

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Absolutely.

Rob, that was a pretty frigging arrogant statement. Thank you for helping her make her point.

scot623 said:

Just checking in. Talk amongst yourselves.

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Indeed?

Lady_Glock,you say you have friends and Family that are members of MOC.
Why haven't they complained about the way scot623 represents MOC over on the MOC website?
I haven't seen any post over on the MOC website about this.
If there is such a thread please post a link so I can check it out,Thanks


I for one think Rob does a great Job representing MOC, He's very articulate and
very knowledgeable on the do's and don'ts of Open Carry.

In regards to RVD ,I agree with xmanhockey7's post
"It's not that Scot23 told him not to carry at all but that he shouldn't carry unless he knows the laws very well"
(Because we don't want to see him get jammed up by the Police)is how I took that comment

In regards to treatment of other posters ( not naming anyone)
Carrying a firearm is a serious responsibility. And some people are just not responsible
enough to be carrying a firearm.I believe Rob calls it like he sees it. I myself like that in a leader
no sense in sugar coating it.