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Thread: Pretend your a "robber" (oc) vs (cc)

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    Regular Member newbie's Avatar
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    Pretend your a "robber" (oc) vs (cc)

    Ok just for the sake of argument between me and my buddy....... say your a harden criminal and today is the day your going to rob some guy walking down the road. Now guy #1 has a open carried firearm in plane sight. And guy #2 also is packing heat but his is hiden from your view so hes cc. Now today obviously is not your day. Both guys packing a firearm. Who are you going to attack guy #1 or guy #2 reply with thoughts please


    if it was me id say im going for the guy whos not oc because it seems to be the easier bet

    My friend who is a ccw holder says if he was to do it he would go for the guy whos oc because its a easy grab for a firearm.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Probably less than 3% of the population carries a firearm regularly (and that is a SWAG)

    Given that, is there an advantage to looking like one of the 97% who are helpless, or is there an advantage to looking like you may be a problem?

    It works the same as having visible bars on the windows, a "Guarded by XXX Company" sign in the yard, a dog food bowl with "Killer" left on the front porch and a host of other things. If you can make it look difficult, most robbers will pick an easier target - same reward, less work. That's just smart thug-thinking.


    Why do officers wear easily identifiable uniforms? Drive distinctively marked patrol cars?
    Wouldn't it be ~more effective~ to deterring crime if you couldn't tell if the guy next to you was a cop on patrol or just another guy walking on the sidewalk? You'd be worried that every casually dressed male that wasn't wearing a wife-beater was packing a badge.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Naturally I would go for the guy not carrying a gun (I don't know he is).

    If I knew both were packing heat I would, still, target the CCer. An OCer can ALWAYS pull faster than a CCer with similar gear and training. I am not saying that some CCers can't beat an OCer, but that is the exception.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Naturally I would go for the guy not carrying a gun (I don't know he is).

    If I knew both were packing heat I would, still, target the CCer. An OCer can ALWAYS pull faster than a CCer with similar gear and training. I am not saying that some CCers can't beat an OCer, but that is the exception.
    I made that a point of my argument that I can draw my gun alot faster with my oc holster then I could with my in the waistband holster.

    With all of these points im trying to prove to him he still says that a robber will target me before him but the only difrence is that in each of his arguments os that the robber will come behind me and they will attack him from the front only.. I sware some people are so hard headed

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie View Post
    I made that a point of my argument that I can draw my gun alot faster with my oc holster then I could with my in the waistband holster.

    With all of these points im trying to prove to him he still says that a robber will target me before him but the only difrence is that in each of his arguments os that the robber will come behind me and they will attack him from the front only.. I sware some people are so hard headed
    You didn't say if the "robber" was armed or not, but I'm assuming he isn't since he has to approach you from behind. Other than the fact that an unarmed robber would be foolish to attack an obviously armed citizen (who I'll also assume knows something about weapon retention), there's also the possibility - remote that it may be - that your hardened criminal has "gunfighter's syndrome", and knows that (statistically) he can act before you can react, therefore sees the armed citizen as a challenge. The average person who must react is almost always a split second behind the one who initiates action against him... unless your name is Bob Munden (see below vid). Pax...

    P.S. The audio is in English
    Last edited by Gil223; 04-28-2012 at 01:39 AM. Reason: P.S.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie View Post
    Ok just for the sake of argument between me and my buddy....... say your a harden criminal and today is the day your going to rob some guy walking down the road. Now guy #1 has a open carried firearm in plane sight. And guy #2 also is packing heat but his is hiden from your view so hes cc. Now today obviously is not your day. Both guys packing a firearm. Who are you going to attack guy #1 or guy #2 reply with thoughts please.
    If I were that hardened and my only choice was to rob either of these two, I'd dispatch guy #2 before he knew what hit him, assuming he was armed anyway, regardless of whether I was able to spot it or not. Reason: It takes between a split second and a couple of seconds longer to draw and fire from concealed than it does from open carry.

    If I were really that hardened and had a choice, however, I'd become a lawyer and pray on the emotional turbidity of divorce and child custody. That's where the money is. My divorce attorney's bookcase held pictures of his mansion, pool, boat, motorhome, and second house on the lake. Obviously, not the brightest of attorneys, yet he wasn't hurting.

    My heart, however, is nowhere near that hard! Having been through that grief, I have way too much compassion to ever do that. I could see myself becoming a defense attorney, but not if I had to first be a public prosecutor.

    My friend who is a ccw holder says if he was to do it he would go for the guy whos oc because its a easy grab for a firearm.
    You're friend is sadly mistaken, and I hope he never tries it, as he's likely to wind up dead. Grabbing a firearm out of a retention holster is NOT an "easy grab." The basic retention technique of secure, spin, and block is fairly easy to learn, and quite effective when done properly. It's a matter of leverage, not strength. It also opens the gun grabber up to two in the chest, one in the head, which would effectively put a sad but permanent end to your friend's mistaken ideas.

    The other thing about which your friend is mistaken is that a robber will "take out the opposition." I am no Bob Munden, but I can draw, fire, and hit a man standing twenty feet away in less than a second, and criminals know this. They also know they cannot approach without drawing the attention of an alert OCer. Stay alert, use your hearing, move your vision at least 45 degrees left and right of facing forward so you're checking six with peripheral vision, and be observant of the behavior of others, and nine times out of ten, your potential attacker will have aborted you as a target simply because you're OCing. Of the remaining 10% who might have been sizing you up anyway, they'll abort 90% of the time because you're being alert. So, between OC and being alert, you're about 1% as likely to be attacked as the average citizen.*

    *Yes, the stats are fictitious, but we really don't have very good stats on this, anyway, other than if you're OCing you're several times more likely to be harassed, and illegally so, by law enforcement. I do know that criminals don't walk around taking pot-shots at OCers, because if they miss, they're in for a world of hurt.

    This video's resolution isn't the best, but consider the difference between the predator (wolf/criminal), the prey (sheep/most people), and the sheepdog (sheep dog/me). Observe who's standing triumphantly over the wolf at 3:58 into the video.

    Last edited by since9; 04-28-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie View Post
    Ok just for the sake of argument between me and my buddy....... say your a harden criminal and today is the day your going to rob some guy walking down the road. Now guy #1 has a open carried firearm in plane sight. And guy #2 also is packing heat but his is hiden from your view so hes cc. Now today obviously is not your day. Both guys packing a firearm. Who are you going to attack guy #1 or guy #2 reply with thoughts please


    if it was me id say im going for the guy whos not oc because it seems to be the easier bet

    My friend who is a ccw holder says if he was to do it he would go for the guy whos oc because its a easy grab for a firearm.
    IMO anyone who attacks someone who is obviously armed is not a hardened criminal, they are stupid. Assuming you can grab a gun out of a holster without detection or without a fight is just dumb.


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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Observe who's standing triumphantly over the wolf at 3:58 into the video.
    You make some excellent points, however... had the sheepdogs and the shepherd been doing their jobs at the outset there would be no dead sheep. Which is exactly why the world needs more alert sheepdogs among the multitudes of sheeples. Pax...
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    I had my friend read threw some of these and the 40 comments on facebook stating he was wrong, but he still says he wins this argument. Not sure if hes that hard headed or droped on his head... Thanks for all the replys, there was some real good points in here

    Also in my argument I added that my holster sits directly above my right front pocket. Its the best spot for me. So I cant picture anyone grabing me from behind and not getting shot in the mix of it all.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    ,snip> They also know they cannot approach without drawing the attention of an alert OCer. Stay alert, use your hearing, move your vision at least 45 degrees left and right of facing forward so you're checking six with peripheral vision, and be observant of the behavior of others, <snip>
    Then the sun goes down....
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    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie View Post
    I had my friend read threw some of these and the 40 comments on facebook stating he was wrong, but he still says he wins this argument.
    It sounds as if your friend has some issues regarding his inability to admit that he could possibly be wrong about anything. It's a fairly common problem though, and one which he shares with several people in this forum. Pax...
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    Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint

    Check it Out !!!

    MILWAUKEE, WI.

    ; http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html

    "The 34-year-old man legally owned a handgun and carried it out in the open in his holster for protection.

    "It was kind of scary to just see him walking around all the time with that gun kind of just out in the open,"

    But it wasn't scary for at least one person who robbed "The guy with the gun" at gunpoint."

    So, to answer you directly, I'd WHACK the OC'er 1st ( jump Him/Her from cover wit' a tire iron in da' back o' da' head) then lay inta da' udder one like a bad habbit then ske-daddle outta there !!!

    Dat's whut AH'd doooo !!!

    PEACE & RKBA FOREVER !!!

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    Cool

    Thats the story my friend was talking about. I wasnt sure it was real or some bs. but now I see that it was a real story I just cant picture it happening. Theres some really dumb guys out there but come on now. Thats asking to die if you make one small slip in that robbery, also im not sure if iv read this right but its going to make this man not carry, or just not oc? I wiah I could be in his shoes that day. Not to be robbed but the chance to ask the robber WTF ARE YOU THINKING!?! That guy must not care for life itself or is off his meds.


    Also you are vary right he is the only hes right, type of guy weather we are talking about our motorcycles,guns,cars

    I remember one day we were fighting avout whos bike was faster threw the turns his hayabusa or my ninja 650r we lined them up on a dead country road and off we went I raced threw them pushing my bike as hard as I could threw turn 1 and 2 I look behind myself not seeing him so I went to panic mode. Exspect the worse type of thing I ride back dont see him anywhere I park my bike so quick on turn 1s sholder that I almost dumped it I begin running threw the ditchs looking for him or a bike after looking and about 20min I see no sign I give up go home so pissed off about what happened. I call him later that night he told me after we started the race his wofe called he had to turn around. Needless to say I didnt talk to him for about a month. But that kind of gives you an idea, thats how he gets out of crap to keep him thinking hes right

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