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OT - WAC ND at Puyallup today

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Yes, his gun was supposed to be tied up like everyone else's. But how can anyone know why it wasn't? He broke the rules and now he's going to pay for it. Luckily no inocents are going to pay too.

This proves that this kind of thing can and does happen when guys have a loaded weapon at an event where it's easy to just say "Here, take a look at this one..." and BOOM!

Guns don't shoot themselves, people pull triggers. This time it was a guy with many many years of being a firearms instructor under his belt, making a few mistakes. This thing does happen. I was there. For about five seconds you could have heard a pin drop in the gunshow. Everyone who heard that shot instantly had a reality check today.

Thank God no one was hit.

If this can happen with the "Actions tied open" policy, then how many more might occur if it wasn't there.

It's amazing how many here claim that with all their experience they wouldn't have a ND. That they should be allowed to carry loaded firearms at the show. Just goes to show that experience is no assurance there won't be a problem.

For the comment that this individual should be prosecuted, he may well be. Unlawful discharge of a firearm, reckless endangerment, who knows.
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
If this can happen with the "Actions tied open" policy, then how many more might occur if it wasn't there.

It's amazing how many here claim that with all their experience they wouldn't have a ND. That they should be allowed to carry loaded firearms at the show. Just goes to show that experience is no assurance there won't be a problem.

I have carried into gun shows, and I have never had a ND.

It doesn't take a whole lot of experience to not take your carry gun out of the holster, or not touch it at all, without need. Just an IQ slightly-above room temperature.
 

decklin

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
758
Location
Pacific, WA
If this can happen with the "Actions tied open" policy, then how many more might occur if it wasn't there.

It's amazing how many here claim that with all their experience they wouldn't have a ND. That they should be allowed to carry loaded firearms at the show. Just goes to show that experience is no assurance there won't be a problem.

For the comment that this individual should be prosecuted, he may well be. Unlawful discharge of a firearm, reckless endangerment, who knows.

This doesn't make any sense. The guy had an ND beacuse he was irresponsible, careless, and above all an idiot!
He violated all basic safety rules that every one of us follows.
I am so surprised that you said this! Following your logic it would be a simple step for the anti's to require us to carry unloaded weapons.
This guy was a moron and now he has to pay the consequences. Unfortunately there were probably people in that facility looking to buy their first gun and this incident has scared them off forever! The anti crowd probably just recruited some new members!
This guy would have had an ND whether the zip tie policy was in place or not! He is an idiot. Idiots cannot be tamed.
 

waterfowl woody

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
137
Location
Silvana, Washington, USA
so this instructor clears his gun by pulling the trigger. Nice an ID, idiotic discharge. all the teaching in the world won't help him.

WAC we don't need you in Washington.

W won't
A allow
C carry
 

skiingislife725

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
400
Location
Lake Stevens, WA
This doesn't make any sense. The guy had an ND beacuse he was irresponsible, careless, and above all an idiot!
He violated all basic safety rules that every one of us follows.
I am so surprised that you said this! Following your logic it would be a simple step for the anti's to require us to carry unloaded weapons.
This guy was a moron and now he has to pay the consequences. Unfortunately there were probably people in that facility looking to buy their first gun and this incident has scared them off forever! The anti crowd probably just recruited some new members!
This guy would have had an ND whether the zip tie policy was in place or not! He is an idiot. Idiots cannot be tamed.

Exactly. What's that saying, "Knowledge without application is useless"? This is a perfect example of it. Like ManinBlack put it, you've just got to have an IQ above room temperature to not take your carry gun out of its holster in public. And who the hell doesn't check the chamber before they pull the trigger in........ahh f it...you can't fix stupid...you can't fix stupid...you can't fix stupid. I have to keep telling myself that because my head will explode trying to think how people can get to that point. So many f-ups adding up before the round actually went off. And so glad no one got hurt because of this guys negligence.
 

1911er

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Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
833
Location
Port Orchard Wa. /Granite Oklahoma
some mothers kids

Spyder I am with you the guy did several stupid things, 1 broke the rules no loaded weapons 2 Broke the law discharged a weapon in city limits, 3 Was unsafe removing a loaded weapon from A secure holster.and A few others. My opinion he should be charged with at least ND of A firearm.RCW 9.41.270 (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another. It would be difficult to charge someone with 9.41.270 at A gun show with everyone there handleing guns
 

BigDave

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Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Spyder I am with you the guy did several stupid things, 1 broke the rules no loaded weapons 2 Broke the law discharged a weapon in city limits, 3 Was unsafe removing a loaded weapon from A secure holster.and A few others. My opinion he should be charged with at least ND of A firearm.RCW 9.41.270 (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another. It would be difficult to charge someone with 9.41.270 at A gun show with everyone there handleing guns

According to what I have read on this incident, I do not see an intent to intimidate another but warrants alarm for the safety of other persons, Yes.

RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

And if the city has an ordinance on prohibition on discharge of guns in the city limits then there would be another issue.

As many have discussed when incidents as this has occurred adding on more restrictions or new laws would not have done any good now or in the future, but to enforce what laws on the books now.

One has pointed out about the issue of WAC keeping those attending safe as would be stated about other institutions that cannot be all and do all is appropriate and hypocritical in saying otherwise.

As to this instructor, one this a self imposed title or did he actually receive training to have an extensive background in training as we have and have those on here as well proclaiming they are instructors and were no more then, Yup I Am One.
 

SpyderTattoo

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
1,015
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
We always have at least one Puyallup PD officer on duty at the Puyallup shows, and yes, he is handling it. I personally don't know what he will be charged with, but it will be something for sure. No way can this go unpunished.

What I heard is that the vendor was clearing the chamber, just like everyone should do when handling any firearm, but his finger was on the trigger. Luckily, the muzzle was pointed toward the ceiling. You don't know how many times I see guys clearing/handling guns by pointing the weapon in the "XY" plane and not in the "Z" plane (towards floor or ceiling). And you also don't know how many times I see fingers on triggers...

Many, many hundreds/thousands of people do not have proper weapon handling skills. I'm sure the people on this board, and other pro-gun boards, have a much higher level of skill and awareness of themselves than the general public. I personally would trust any of you to properly handle your weapons.

It's more likely that in public, most people are a bit more responsible, but the gunshow is a unique set of circumstances.

The last time this happened at WAC was about 17 years ago.
 
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GreatWhiteLlama

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
287
Location
Bothell, Washington, USA
I find this fact to be extremely humorous:

If a criminal carries a gun past a no guns sign in a store/restaurant and commits a crime, many people on this forum will be the first to proclaim, "SEE! The sign does NOTHING to make anyone safer! It only disarms law abiding citizens who become victims by following the signs!" and yet some of those same persons' reactions are completely opposite when it happens at a WAC gun show: "The no loaded guns policy is meant to make everyone safer at the gun show!" Really?

The WAC policy serves exactly the same purpose as a no guns sign posted at Jimmy's gas station...nothing more, nothing less. It provides for cheaper insurance and a warm and fuzzy feeling in some people.

WAC should have the same policy as Wholesale Sports and Sportsman's Warehouse: all guns NOT CARRIED IN A HOLSTER ON THE PERSON shall be verified unloaded and ziptied. NO GUNS without the zip tie will be handled in the show. Any person discovered handling a gun without a zip tie will be removed from the premises.

Very well put NavyLCDR. I can't understand why this is so difficult for the WAC Fanboys to grasp.

And as mentioned in earlier posts and threads, this is exactly why so many of us refuse to join...

:p
 

ManInBlack

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Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
WAC should have the same policy as Wholesale Sports and Sportsman's Warehouse: all guns NOT CARRIED IN A HOLSTER ON THE PERSON shall be verified unloaded and ziptied. NO GUNS without the zip tie will be handled in the show. Any person discovered handling a gun without a zip tie will be removed from the premises.


+1000 yay for common sense
 

BigDave

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Nov 22, 2006
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Yakima, Washington, USA
What I heard is that the vendor was clearing the chamber, just like everyone should do when handling any firearm, but his finger was on the trigger. Luckily, the muzzle was pointed toward the ceiling. You don't know how many times I see guys clearing/handling guns by pointing the weapon in the "XY" plane and not in the "Z" plane (towards floor or ceiling). And you also don't know how many times I see fingers on triggers...[

So you are saying you are around alot of stupid people then?

Many, many hundreds/thousands of people do not have proper weapon handling skills. I'm sure the people on this board, and other pro-gun boards, have a much higher level of skill and awareness of themselves than the general public. I personally would trust any of you to properly handle your weapons.

Passive Aggressive are you? While those in the Open Carry Movement are trying to gain support of others that own weapons you will insult them so easily it is like those who call Conceal Carry as Criminal Carry and yet want their support, amazing.

It's more likely that in public, most people are a bit more responsible, but the gunshow is a unique set of circumstances.
The last time this happened at WAC was about 17 years ago.

Really, making excuses for WAC and not so in other venues, Really!

I do find NavyLCDR post as being spot on.
 
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SpyderTattoo

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
1,015
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
So you are saying you are around alot of stupid people then?


I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I work for WAC so I see way more of the mishandling of weapons than the average citizen on the block.


Passive Aggressive are you? While those in the Open Carry Movement are trying to gain support of others that own weapons you will insult them so easily it is like those who call Conceal Carry as Criminal Carry and yet want their support, amazing.


Stating observations from only two years working for WAC, but also a member there for 17 years. Also a previous table holder there.



Really, making excuses for WAC and not so in other venues, Really!


Please, is a gunshow, where hundreds, if not thousands, of firearms are handled on an hourly basis, really the same as going to a warehouse store or restaurant where no firearms are being handled, the same thing? We all know that the gunshow is a completely different world.

I do find NavyLCDR post as being spot on.

I agree. I think that would be a great policy. Will that ever happen? Probably not, but it's something to work towards. I never said that the current policies are perfect. But then, even TSA has problems.
 

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
Why not have security tie weapons when they come in? Or better yet since security didnt make a difference either way why not just make a rule all unholstered guns will be empty and all holstered guns will remain holstered. That might be too easy, and conflict with society outside of the paid club.
 

ManInBlack

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Jul 2, 2006
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SW Idaho
Stating observations from only two years working for WAC, but also a member there for 17 years. Also a previous table holder there.

Thank you for disclosing your interest.

Please, is a gunshow, where hundreds, if not thousands, of firearms are handled on an hourly basis, really the same as going to a warehouse store or restaurant where no firearms are being handled, the same thing? We all know that the gunshow is a completely different world.

So, please tell us why it would be so difficult to have all of those thousands of firearms for sale zip-tied upon entry to the show, while enforcing a rule that any holstered weapons must stay holstered, from the time one enters, until the time one leaves. Anyone violating either rule could be removed immediately.

Guess what? Pawn shops and gun stores let me handle firearms while I have a holstered, loaded piece on me. Not only that, but lots of other people are in the store handling firearms, too! They would probably eject me immediately if I touched my gun in the store, and I wouldn't blame them! No, it's not the same size as a gun show, but in terms of number of people handling firearms per square foot at any given time, I'd say it's pretty close.

I agree. I think that would be a great policy. Will that ever happen? Probably not, but it's something to work towards.

"BUT WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT THIS WAY..." :uhoh:

I never said that the current policies are perfect. But then, even TSA has problems.

Wow...highly unfortunate that any supposed pro-firearm organization would model itself after the TSA...
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
The only comment I have regarding this is:

It's disappointing it happened, not because of any policy or rules but because of how the outside world will see it. It gives another thing the antis have for ammunition for gun control and it gives political figures, especially those anti, the ability to focus on that which was not even on there radar. Being that its a political year and focus has been highlighted on schools and kids, this spreads that focus. Which is really unfortunate.

While I choose not to be a WAC member due to some disagreements of there policies, I believe it could be bigger if the news so chooses and as such, regardless of any standing I do or don't have with them this is a loss for gun owners.
 

44Brent

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
772
Location
Olympia, WA
I don't believe this alleged story that there was a ND at a WAC-sponsored gun show. Since WAC bans open and concealed carry, it is impossible for there to be a resulting ND.

I don't know why WAC would go around spreading rumors that their rules aren't working.
 

Trigger Dr

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Oct 3, 2007
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Location
Wa, ,
I am very curious about this:

How many WAC members won't do business in a store that has a "no guns" sign posted?

Probably about the same number of those that post their negative comments here withput any attempt to make a change. As it has been said M A N Y times if you don't like it, don't go. OR do go, get into office and make the changes you would like to see. If you are not willing to do that then shut the f*(@k up.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
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Whatcom County
Probably about the same number of those that post their negative comments here withput any attempt to make a change. As it has been said M A N Y times if you don't like it, don't go. OR do go, get into office and make the changes you would like to see. If you are not willing to do that then shut the f*(@k up.

Who are you to tell us to shut the f up?

And you have all but admitted to breaking the rules of WAC and concealing your loaded weapon. I wonder why security hasn't escorted you out?

Have you worked to change the hypocritical policy? How about you as a loyal member, take the valid complaints and go to your board and work to change it?

We have just as much right to bitch about WAC's anti gun policy as we do any other private business. And we don't have to go. Guess what posting negative comments here is an attempt to make a change the more we discourage people from going or joining maybe WAC will rethink their policy.

I got an idea, why don't you not bitch about Obama and the democrats and join their party to change it, other wise you can just shut the f up? That makes just about as much sense as your statement.

I have no desire to change the WAC, nor to support them. I simply think it is entirely hypocritical for a person to say they would not support any business that posts "no guns" signs, and yet pay to be a proud member of an organization that does exactly that. Don't you?

+1

Let's not forget this was a member of WAC an instructor.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
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Whatcom County
So you are saying you are around alot of stupid people then?



Passive Aggressive are you? While those in the Open Carry Movement are trying to gain support of others that own weapons you will insult them so easily it is like those who call Conceal Carry as Criminal Carry and yet want their support, amazing.



Really, making excuses for WAC and not so in other venues, Really!

I do find NavyLCDR post as being spot on.

+1
 

BigDave

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Nov 22, 2006
Messages
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Yakima, Washington, USA
The one thing that did work here is The Gun Safety Rules, has to violate all 3 to have injured someone.
1. All Guns Are Loaded (violated)
2. Keep Your Finger Off The Trigger (violated)
3. Keep It Pointed In A Safe Direction (mastered)
 
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