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Thread: Our wonderful preemption!

  1. #1
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    Our wonderful preemption!

    I know that most of you could care less about weapons other than firearms here, and I know that the emphasis here and other organizations is firearms. However, it crosses my mind that it should be common sense for our preemption to protect those who can't afford a firearm and those who would rather use less lethal means of defense. The inquiry is how hard do you think it would be to get the Kentucky state legislature to extend the protection of our right to bear arms to knives, tazers, etc.?
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  2. #2
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    CCDWL - Concealed Deadly Weapons License already does that.....


    500.080 Definitions for Kentucky Penal Code.As used in the Kentucky Penal Code, unless the context otherwise requires
    (4) "Deadly weapon" means any of the following (a) A weapon of mass destruction;(b) Any weapon from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or otherserious physical injury, may be discharged;(c) Any knife other than an ordinary pocket knife or hunting knife;(d) Billy, nightstick, or club;(e) Blackjack or slapjack;(f) Nunchaku karate sticks;(g) Shuriken or death star; or(h) Artificial knuckles made from metal, plastic, or other similar hard material;
    Last edited by Bill Starks; 04-29-2012 at 05:44 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    A local government can regulate weapons that aren't firearms however they desire as they aren't preempted from doing so.

    65.870

    No city, county or urban-county government may occupy any part of the field of
    regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession, carrying or transportation of firearms,
    ammunition, or components of firearms or combination thereof.

    It has recently been given some teeth and expanded to include newer types of local governments.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  4. #4
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    You are correct, but most local governments can care less about weapons that are not classified as a firearm. Firearms are probably the most common weapon and cannot be regulated at a local level so it is mostly pointless to regulate other weapons.

    I support what you're saying and will write to my representative about extending our preemption.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  5. #5
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    Yes, if you have your cdwl it does authorize you to carry any deadly weapon at any location in Ky., other than locations specifically prohibited in 237.110. However if you don't have a cdwl, then local governments can prohibit your right to carry deadly weapons besides firearms because they are not preempted by state law. Everyone that chooses not to be a cdwl holder should be able to carry any deadly weapon like state law allows, (openly of course with no cdwl), without worrying about breaking a local ordinance. I'm fairly certain Charley does not have his cdwl, therefore if he was to carry a switchblade openly on his belt, and a local government prohibits it, then he could be cited or arrested for violating the pertinent ordinance because he doesn't have the cdwl that authorizes it.

    Our preemption should state all deadly weapons, accessories, and components thereof. It would only make sense being as our constitution says right to bear "arms" and not just firearms.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Having a CCDW does not permit you to carry a non firearm in most public buildings. Charley is right that the preemption law does not cover knives so even if you have a CCDW, you must be careful where you carry it in regards to public buildings.

    I agree that the right to self defense is a natural right, and I agree that the preemption law should be amended to be more broad. Considering that I don't think we can include knives into the second amendment, this will be a tough fight. There are other battles that are more worth my time, energy, and money.

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  7. #7
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    You can conceal carry a non-firearm deadly weapon with a ccdw, however there is nothing that PREVENTS a local government from regulating their carry. Nothing in the law that I have read would prevent them from passing a law making it unlawful to carry a knife whether openly or concealed.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  8. #8
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    Let me re-articulate my thinking--I think I misspoke and I wasn't very clear. Localities are free to legislate against all concealed weapons in public buildings. OC of firearms can not be regulated due to preemption. OC of other weapons can be regulated because of no preemption. Where my point/question lies is I believe because of no preemption protection, localities can regulate the OC or CC of other weapons on any public property (parks, grounds, and the like). Of course the regulating CC of knives elsewhere could not apply to CCDW holders. Does that sound right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    They could pass the ordinance, but it wouldn't apply to a CCDW licensee. KRS 237.110 says that a licensee is licensed to carry concealed deadly weapons in any location except as written in that section. KRS 237.115 grants the authority to prohibit CC weapons in buildings. Where would a city or county get the authority to deny a CCDW licensee the carry of a concealed switchblade knife in a public park? A city or county can not negate the authority of a state license, preemption or not. The passage of any statute (in this case 237.110) nullifies any local ordinance. I believe the same would apply to a CCDW licensee with an openly carried knife or any other weapon. It would be senseless to say he could carry the concealed knife, but couldn't carry the OC knife. The license does not require concealment.
    I have to admit I can see the conflict in the written law. However, im with gutshot. By sensible application, he is correct, although I can see an overzealous prosecuter thinking he has a loophole and maybe even the judge would agree, we've seen a misapplication of the law by one judge already. But we have a really good supreme court and I highly doubt they would see it any differently than its intention.

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