Forced to leave Best Buy

[blcfalcon1]

I was at the Littleton Best Buy with some friends to look at some TVs. I've been here without incident many times before so I just assumed it was just gonna be another day. I was really dressed up, black slacks, black dress shirt, red tie, and to complete my sharp image, a full sized Px4 .40 in a black Galco Vertical Shoulder Holster. Anyways, we were checking out the Magnolia section then the TVs then decided to look at the GoPros. Since I've been here before I wasn't too worried about anything...save for one person (the manager? he was wearing a dress shirt instead of the blues or yellow) following me around.

My friends decided to look at the laptops and it was then I noticed he and the yellow shirt security guy walking in my direction. All my alerts went off and I knew something was going to happen...and of course it did. They asked me if I was an LEO and some people were complaining that I was "terrifying" them. I was excited to finally be able to tell someone about the policies/laws/regulations that I've learned on this forum. I said no, I was an LAC and CO is an OC state, save for Denver, federal buildings and places with metal detectors. They said I couldn't be in there with my sidearm. I wanted to say bs, but being someone who OCs...I said there were no signs forbidding OC and it was their policy to follow CO state laws. The dress shirt told me that BB is a private business and yellow shirt told me he was a former LEO and he never heard of such thing. I noticed more and more employees surround me. I was starting to feel a bit flustered and outnumbered and I told the yellow shirt if OC isnt allowed then there should be signs, I was doing nothing wrong and I was going to continue my business. Dress shirt repeated his private business statement/trespassing and yellow shirt followed up saying I should answer to the Lakewood PD. When I heard trespassing, my mind jumped to my record and being selecting into Army OCS and I just gave up...pathetic...

I complied and left. As I exited, I called up BB Corporate and told them my story. The person who answered told me BB doesn't allow OC. I called bs but in my head of course. I told them if there really was such a policy then there should be signs since CO is OC and she said she'll contact the store about that...

I hung up defeated. I think I screwed up...

[ManInBlack]

It was good that you left when you did. I would have left even sooner, and let them know my money was leaving with me.

I told the yellow shirt if OC isnt allowed then there should be signs, I was doing nothing wrong and I was going to continue my business.

If they had already asked you to leave with your firearm, ^that right there would have been technically enough for a trespassing charge.

[skidmark]

I hung up defeated. I think I screwed up...

Yeah. Sort of.

But do not be disheartened. It may be possible to salvage much from the experience.

Possibly the best/most often recommended strategy at this point is a carefully crafted letter to the BB District Manager. Focus on your past experiences there without incident, the fact that you were told you were "terrorizing" customers but could not observe any of them moving away from you and apparently none of them called 9-1-1 for police protection, and that the security guy wanted to engage you in a debate between what he thought the law was and what it actually says, while you were at that point only trying to make a graceful exit in compliance with the request of the store manager.

Please do not go into whether or not the store is/was posted - if it is/was not it will just remind them to go ahead and do so.

Please do not threaten to boycott them, or to ask all your friends, neighbors and strangers on the internet to do so. The bottom line is they know they have many more customers for whom this is not an issue, and they will not miss your business one little bit. On the other hand, if you are a frequent customer who spends a lot of money there on a frequent/regular basis, you might note your desire to remain there as opposed to going to the competition but reolution of the issue will decide that.

About here is the point where you insert the statement that you were under the impresion, based on past experiences and information gained from reliable sources, that BB followed state law, which is why you were surprised at the actions of the store manager.

Be sure to include your email and phone contact info, as well as your snail mail address. Do ask that they respond by either email or regular mail, but be prepared to record any phone calls if your state allows that without requiring consent from all parties.

Don't give up hope, but also don't expect them to want to kiss your backside in apology either.

stay safe.

[tjkruck]

I don't know if it means anything but it is publicly owned not a private business.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Buy. Look at the type PUBLIC. Buy some stock and attend some meetings lol

[ManInBlack]

I don't know if it means anything but it is publicly owned not a private business.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Buy. Look at the type PUBLIC

All that means is that it is publicly traded; i.e., any member of the public can buy stock in the company on one of the Wall Street exchanges.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_company

Best Buy is most certainly not "publicly owned" in the same way government assets are.

[blcfalcon1]

heres my email through the customer contact email

"Earlier today at Store #210, I was asked to leave the premises as I was shopping because I was openly carrying a handgun. It was in its holster and carefully retained. Colorado is an open carry state so having a weapon in a holster is perfectly legal except in the county of Denver, federal buildings, and buildings with metal detectors. Best Buy is not federally owned nor does it have metal detectors and it wasn't in the county of Denver. Also, I believe that it is Best Buy's policy to comply with all applicable law and statues.

I was under the impression that Best Buy was still complying with the state laws. I have carried my weapon in the store many times before without incident, so being confronted by the store manager shocked me. He and the security employee said I was terrorizing the other customers but I never noticed anyone moving away from me and apparently no one called 911 for the police. I would like this issue resolved as soon as possible because I would like to remain a customer as I frequently shop there."

[aadvark]

blcfalcon1:

Best Buy Corporate Store Policy is to Follow Applicable State Law.

Whoever said any Different is Full-of-it.

However..., it is IMPORTANT to Remember that Colorado Law ALLOWS Local Governments to PROHIBIT Open Carry in a Specified Public Building or Specified Area within The Local Government Jurisdiction. The Applicable Law, and Information Referenced thereto and herein Referenced, is Viewable here: http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs/open-carry

NEVERTHELESS..., Best Buy is NOT a Public Building, and Whoever Told You that is Full-of-it..., as Well!

aadvark

[tjkruck]

@maninblack. Thank you for clarifying that. I did not study business and was unsure

[ManInBlack]

@maninblack. Thank you for clarifying that. I did not study business and was unsure

Sorry about snapping; I had already been dealing with a person on the forum today trying to claim that businesses open to the public somehow can't make and enforce rules against open carrying. I shouldn't have taken it out on you. I will try to do better.

[Beau]

I have also OC'd in Best Buy without issue. I think they leave up to management to decide if it is allowed.

I see two areas where you "screwed" up.

1) If asked to leave you need to leave. Do not argue. Not only do you do a disservice to to gun owners by casting us in a negative light you are setting yourself up for a trespass charge. It's one thing to politely ask to speak to a manager before leaving. Quite another to refuse to leave and argue about "your rights".

2) DO NOT bring up signs or the lack thereof. IANAL & it depends on who you ask, signs do not carry the weight of law in Colorado.

So,
1) Suggesting a sign gives them a false sense of security by making them think that if they post a sign people can not or will not carry a firearm into their business.

2) Maybe you are the first person they have had to deal with as an OC'er. By suggesting they put up signs you are giving them an easy out. Most gun owners will not patronize a anti 2A business. If they do not post signs they may have to deal with another OC'er then another and so on. So why suggest that they put up signs that may keep other gun owners away?

[blcfalcon1]

Yeh I guess i got my behavior mixed up. I think was more prepared to confront an LEO in an outdoor setting thus "leave me be im doing nothing wrong" than in a store setting with managers. As for the sign thing...yeh i never really read up on anyone saying that and i panicked and began to improv...learning something new everyday right? like i said...OCd many times and never had a confrontation before...and whod knew my first time was kinda a big deal...ill admit fault...

also found this after digging through the forum

"Everyone seems to forget that private property owners being able to remove customers carrying guns is also a part of state law."

[tjkruck]

Sorry about snapping; I had already been dealing with a person on the forum today trying to claim that businesses open to the public somehow can't make and enforce rules against open carrying. I shouldn't have taken it out on you. I will try to do better.

All good man. I am new to the forum scene and am making some mistakes and I hope to learn fast so I don't make stupid comments as I just did earlier

[tjkruck]

A topic I brought up at work today is it is so funny that businesses enforce this ban guns when firearms are legal. Now I live in Minnesota and it is illegal to smoke inside a place of business and within 50 feet of any entrance, so people are actually breaking a law when they walk up to the main entrance while smoking a cigarette and the business doesn't enforce that I had to walk thru a plume of smoke and inhale that, but that's okay they are just breaking a law and we firearms carriers are the ones frowned upon and have the cops called on us when we are doing something perfectly legal (please do not take offence if you are a smoker, I am not saying that its wrong, I'm just comparing the two)

[M-Taliesin]

Howdy Amigo!
I am flabbergasted at what happened to you at a Best Buy! For more than a year now, I've shopped at various Best Buy stores and always while open carrying my sidearm. Nobody has ever given me a moment of trouble at any Best Buy I've visited. The two I most often visit are near I-70 and Tower Road, and the one on Mississippi just off I-25. But I've been to several others and not had trouble at any of them.

This sounds like a specific managerial type felt obliged to exercise his own opinion rather than following corporate policy as pertains to your unfortunate interlude at his store. I wonder if the reality of those 'terrified' customers actually boils down to one or two that may have approached the security guy and said something like "hey, did you know there's a guy with a gun walking around in here?" Rather than fielding the concern of their customer, they simply translated it into the person asking the question as a terrified customer.

Terrified is a pretty strong word, and I'd have expected screaming and running away from your location or similar symptoms associated with somebody being terrorized. You've indicated that nothing of that ilk seemed to be happening, so it leads me to wonder how they determined anybody was terrorized. I'm thinking it might have been the tie. Most folks dislike wearing ties. Perhaps they were terrorized by the sight of somebody wearing a "power color" tie? Okay, I'm joshing a little, but ya gotta laugh at the situation or it will wear on ya.

Noting you are new to the forum, welcome aboard. Hope to see you at one of our meet and greet festivities in the near future.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

[F350]

This is just one more reason; I was done with Best Buy when I discovered this....

http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.c...m-brotherhood/

[acmariner99]

The instant someone says that they don't want you in their store, you say that you and your money are going someplace else. And if you buy a high ticket item from their competition, you can bring back the receipt - without carrying of course

[blcfalcon1]

^ duly noted

[rushcreek2]

Blcfalcon1, here's my take on your reported experience at BB. I only offer these reflections and suggestions in order to assist you in achieving greater OC success in the future.

Location: The Littleton, CO community just happens to carry the scars of the Columbine High School shooting. This is a significant factor worthy of some reflection when considering HOW TO OC in Littleton, CO.

Your presentation: Black pants, black shirt, black shoulder holster, and red tie. I have myself on occassion been known to wear a black shirt, and black pants - and I even prefer black holsters for my "black" Glock. Bringing up the Columbine incident once more - those insane murderers were big into wearing black also.

OK - Here goes. Let's concede that you were obviously not in "stealth" mode due to your choice of black with red tie ensemble , and a rarely displayed shoulder-holster . In my mind a shoulder-rig, black shirt, pants, & red tie conjures up a vision of some 1920's era gangster. Do you think it is conceivable that the BB staff may have experienced a similar reaction to your presentation ? It is apparent that the staff for some reason was not "comfortable" with your armed presence.

I would only echo the previous concerns that your making an issue of there not being any signs posted only serves to advance the subject of signs forward for consideration.

Caution !!! about pushing the trespass button too hard - ditto.

Finally, you might want to consider checking your "balance", and "treble" settings in order to achieve a more soothing "sound" quality upon entering private premises.

Now - I'll be the first to admit that my own unique "style" when I OC is barely detectable - so I'm not necessarily offering my suggestions as a prescription , or template for others to copy.

[JamesB]

I seem to have a completely different position on this reported incident.

I think the entire thing boils down to having a former LEO as a security guard there.

We all know that current LEO's are not nescessarily the most reliable type to know about current (or long-standing) gun laws. Now we are talking about a former one. How did he become "former"? I mean according to the news you have to REALLY screw up to get fired from that job. Regardless, he has now slid down so far as to be working security for $8/hour.

I really don't think you screwed up too bad there. I think the former cop probably scared everyone far more than you did. It certainly seems like he fed thier fears instead of allieviating them.

I also go to BB fairly often, usually in Golden. I have never had a problem there.

I will tell you about an encounter that I had recently though:
I went to Applejack (Huge liquor store at I-70 and 32nd). I needed some boxes for moving. Specifically I was looking for beer flats to use to carry tons of paperback books. I talked to one of the stockers near the beer cooler, and he ran off to the back to see if he could find me about a dozen of them.
While waiting I just kind of leaned up against the wall of beer they have there. About two minutes later, the one huy wearing a tie and the three biggest empyoyees come walking over to me. He says, "you have a gun?" I say, "Ya. Do you?" "No." And I follow that up quickly with "You're wierd."
That simple statement so threw him off guard that all he could dop was stammer, "umm, oh. umm..." for the next min or so. Finally he looked up and asked, "So, do you have a permit?"
And after a quick little laugh, I say, "a permit is not required for open carry in the state of Colorado." Again, he follows up with, "umm, oh. ok..." but now everyone is much more at ease and him and his boys and I all carry on a conversation about OC vs CC, when permits are needed, what training is required...all was well.

The only real difference between your story and mine was that I did what I could to diffuse the tension by inserting a little humor, and the "former LEO" simply antagonized the croud around you. At least that's how I see it.

Don't kick yourself too hard. As you said, you were far more prepared to deal with someone with a badge. I can go easy on it simply because I have had a lot of practice with it (screwing it up really bad a few time). And I don't think it was your drees code either. It sounds like you were far better and more respectibly dressed than I usually am. So, dont let this one get ya down. Call it a learning experience and move on. Ya did ok. Nobody got shot or handcuffed or...

[davidmcbeth]

I have also OC'd in Best Buy without issue. I think they leave up to management to decide if it is allowed.

I see two areas where you "screwed" up.

Here's another option ... go out, put your gun in your car, go back in, and then follow the guy around...

[blcfalcon1]

I did have my black suit jacket with me but left it in the car...it was pretty hot and sunny out...and i chose the black look because...hell...i looked so awesome i woulda dated myself heheh...my friends were dressed up as well...we were coming from a business lunch and decided to make the BB stop...

ill also add that right after BB we headed to REI thats right next door so i could return some rental equipment...other than some guy giving me the stink eye as i opened the door for him and his lady, everything went like it was every other day...returned the gear, talked to several employees about different things (med kits, climbing gear, cook ware, etc.)

and heres BBs reply email:

"I understand your concern about being asked to leave the premises of the store. Best Buy strives to comply with all applicable law and statues.? Best Buy also strives to provide a safe and comfortable shopping environment for all our customers.? Best Buy does not ban guns at our retail locations.? As a general rule, Best Buy does not post ?no guns allowed? signs in our stores and we are not aware of any individual stores that might have posted such a sign.?

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Sincerely,
Shatigra

Best Buy Customer Care Team"

thats how the email was formatted...the hells with the random question marks?

[davidmcbeth]

thats how the email was formatted...the hells with the random question marks?

?I? ? d?o?n'?t? ????? k?no???w.

[jegoodin]

I did have my black suit jacket with me but left it in the car...it was pretty hot and sunny out...and i chose the black look because...hell...i looked so awesome i woulda dated myself heheh...my friends were dressed up as well...we were coming from a business lunch and decided to make the BB stop...

ill also add that right after BB we headed to REI thats right next door so i could return some rental equipment...other than some guy giving me the stink eye as i opened the door for him and his lady, everything went like it was every other day...returned the gear, talked to several employees about different things (med kits, climbing gear, cook ware, etc.)

and heres BBs reply email:

"I understand your concern about being asked to leave the premises of the store. Best Buy strives to comply with all applicable law and statues.? Best Buy also strives to provide a safe and comfortable shopping environment for all our customers.? Best Buy does not ban guns at our retail locations.? As a general rule, Best Buy does not post ?no guns allowed? signs in our stores and we are not aware of any individual stores that might have posted such a sign.?

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Sincerely,
Shatigra

Best Buy Customer Care Team"

thats how the email was formatted...the hells with the random question marks?

Sometimes email systems get confused and if they do not recognize a character they will insert a question mark, particularly if they drafted the text in a word processor and cut and pasted into the email. It looks to be that is what happened and most of the question marks (?) are supposed to be quotation marks (").

[Kingfish]

and heres BBs reply email:...

What is your plan of attack?

[blcfalcon1]

I...actually dont know what to do from this point.