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Forced to leave Best Buy

blcfalcon1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Littleton, Colorado, United States
I did have my black suit jacket with me but left it in the car...it was pretty hot and sunny out...and i chose the black look because...hell...i looked so awesome i woulda dated myself heheh...my friends were dressed up as well...we were coming from a business lunch and decided to make the BB stop...

ill also add that right after BB we headed to REI thats right next door so i could return some rental equipment...other than some guy giving me the stink eye as i opened the door for him and his lady, everything went like it was every other day...returned the gear, talked to several employees about different things (med kits, climbing gear, cook ware, etc.)

and heres BBs reply email:

"I understand your concern about being asked to leave the premises of the store. Best Buy strives to comply with all applicable law and statues.? Best Buy also strives to provide a safe and comfortable shopping environment for all our customers.? Best Buy does not ban guns at our retail locations.? As a general rule, Best Buy does not post ?no guns allowed? signs in our stores and we are not aware of any individual stores that might have posted such a sign.?

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Sincerely,
Shatigra

Best Buy Customer Care Team"

thats how the email was formatted...the hells with the random question marks?
 

jegoodin

Newbie
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
337
Location
Stafford, Virginia, USA
I did have my black suit jacket with me but left it in the car...it was pretty hot and sunny out...and i chose the black look because...hell...i looked so awesome i woulda dated myself heheh...my friends were dressed up as well...we were coming from a business lunch and decided to make the BB stop...

ill also add that right after BB we headed to REI thats right next door so i could return some rental equipment...other than some guy giving me the stink eye as i opened the door for him and his lady, everything went like it was every other day...returned the gear, talked to several employees about different things (med kits, climbing gear, cook ware, etc.)

and heres BBs reply email:

"I understand your concern about being asked to leave the premises of the store. Best Buy strives to comply with all applicable law and statues.? Best Buy also strives to provide a safe and comfortable shopping environment for all our customers.? Best Buy does not ban guns at our retail locations.? As a general rule, Best Buy does not post ?no guns allowed? signs in our stores and we are not aware of any individual stores that might have posted such a sign.?

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Sincerely,
Shatigra

Best Buy Customer Care Team"

thats how the email was formatted...the hells with the random question marks?

Sometimes email systems get confused and if they do not recognize a character they will insert a question mark, particularly if they drafted the text in a word processor and cut and pasted into the email. It looks to be that is what happened and most of the question marks (?) are supposed to be quotation marks (").
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
You could set up a meeting with THE store manager with the email in hand and have a man to man.

Howdy Amigo!
That advice right there is sound. It ain't easy to argue with the corporate office when they've gone to the trouble of stipulating their policy in writing for you. But I would not leave the house armed only with that particular item.

I'd also take along Article 2, Section 13 of the Colorado Constitution. If you've never read it, you ought to do so. It clearly states that your right to a firearm is not to be called into question. The former LEO needs to learn he ain't an LEO any longer, probably due to his lack of upholding the actual CRS rather than his own bias about things. I'd print out a copy of applicable documentation from the Revised Statutes as pertain to open carry. You might also grab a part from the Adams County Sheriff's Office webpage concerning Concealed Weapons Permits, wherein it states that open carry is legal and no permit is required. The Sheriff there does the best job of any law enforcement agency I've seen in Colorado of simply stating it in plain English! If you have any trouble finding that, lemme know by PM and I can direct you to the actual verbage.

Be polite and courteous, and friendly in demeanor. You may find he'll (or she'll) have questions and learn something from the encounter that will benefit the entire community of open carriers. Every wrong thinking individual that can be turned around is an asset to be cultivated. Who knows how many other people the manager you speak with will affect by telling them about this particular encounter and what s/he has learned from you!

This may be a golden opportunity in disguise. Use it well and wisely, and it can be a blessing.

On a side note, your description of how you were dressed did sound a bit mafiaesque to me, but I thought I was being presumptive until I saw another poster comment on a similar impression. I ain't trying to be critical here, but just noting that more than one of us got the same thought from your description. But as yet another poster commented, I don't think that's the issue that led to trouble. I think as he expressed that it was the former CEO now working as security that incited the problem. That's pure opinion, and I'll state that up front.

Just remember... there could be such people anywhere, at anytime. Just handle them as they come along to the best of your ability. It's a little like walking across a pasture. Sooner or later, you'll run into something (usually by mote of stepping in it) that was not what you hoped to encounter, but still, ya gotta deal with it. I know it stinks, but them's the berries. Even there you have opportunity to use it as fertilizer to grow something positive.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Next time, ask to speak with the manager. The best buy "security" in Coralville, IA asked me to leave once, and after I requested and spoke to a manager, who by the way said he has no problem with it, the security walked away and left me alone.

Regardless of what anyone tells you, Best Buy policy regarding firearms is whatever is allowed by state/local laws. I will do a search of some older emails to find the back and forth I had with a store, regional, and corporate manager. Basically, the store manager was put in her place, and there hasnt been an issue since.
 

mahkagari

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
, ,
ill also add that right after BB we headed to REI thats right next door so i could return some rental equipment...other than some guy giving me the stink eye as i opened the door for him and his lady, everything went like it was every other day...returned the gear, talked to several employees about different things (med kits, climbing gear, cook ware, etc.)

Anyone else find it odd that REI doesn't carry hunting gear?
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Anyone else find it odd that REI doesn't carry hunting gear?

No. Their target clientele is yuppie city slickers who think that spending a night at a state park in a $1000 tent is "getting out there."

I don't ice climb, but I do pretty much every other outdoor activity they cater to, and based on that, their stuff is overpriced and their stores have a definite granola feel. They have great customer service/warranties/replacement policies, so you do get what you pay for in that regard, but I'd rather know what I'm doing, get the right gear at the right price, and make it last.

Just my $0.02.
 

Deserteagle8338

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
104
Location
CO
Save yourself the money and shop on Amazon. BB price gouges everything! My friend bought me headphones with their employee discount.... The headphones are $30, I got them for $10. Just evidence of how much profit they make off of you.
 

blcfalcon1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Littleton, Colorado, United States
i was gonna ask for the manager...but i assumed it was dress shirt...the other guy accompanying the yellow shirt...i remember a few months ago i asked for a manager regarding a mishap with my credit card and he was also wearing a dress shirt...and how should i go about this...do i walk back to the BB with all the documents in hand and ask for the manager? or schedule an appointment...

i stick with online shopping primarily as well...but you cant really see the quality of a tv unless you stand in front of it

rei is stupid pricy but i snowshoe often but not enough to justify buying them...so i rent for cheaper...found out recently you could rent tents!!
 

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
I would take the response from BB right to the store manager. Along with a copy of the Colorado constitution. This is BS.
Colorado constitution is irrelevant. Maybe a summary of OC law from a reputable source....Just to show that it is legal. Maybe take a friend...Volunteers?

You are ASKING that he change his policy to align with corporate policy. If he refuses this polite request then you go back to corporate and escalate.
 

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
i was gonna ask for the manager...but i assumed it was dress shirt...the other guy accompanying the yellow shirt...i remember a few months ago i asked for a manager regarding a mishap with my credit card and he was also wearing a dress shirt...and how should i go about this...do i walk back to the BB with all the documents in hand and ask for the manager? or schedule an appointment...
This

rei is stupid pricy but i snowshoe often but not enough to justify buying them...so i rent for cheaper...found out recently you could rent tents!!
And a lot more. I love REI. OCed in 8 REI stores and NEVER an issue.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
blcfalcon1 said:
"I was openly carrying a handgun. It was in its holster and carefully retained."
This is good. Emphasize safety.

"having a [strike]weapon[/strike] pistol in a holster is perfectly legal... I have carried my [strike]weapon[/strike] holetered handgun in the store many times before"
When speaking with non-gun people, get the "W" word out of your vocabulary.
Pistol, handgun, firearm, personal protective device, tool...

blcfalcon1 said:
I... actually don't know what to do from this point.
porterhouse83 said:
I would take the response from BB right to the store manager.
Call & make an appointment with the store manager.
Take the corporate email (with headers, etc., so s/he can tell it's real), take the info Taliesin suggests about OC being perfectly legal.
If the manager won't correct the problem with his/her employees, go back to corporate.
Get in touch with the district/area/whatever manager... whoever's the next rung higher than the store manager who won't follow corp. policy.
Be polite, be persistent.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Colorado constitution is irrelevant.

Howdy Kingfish!
I don't believe that the Colorado Constitution is in the least irrelevant, especially in this particular case, with the former LEO security type being who they relied upon for the legality of our friend open carrying. He stated he didn't believe it was legal. Ergo, the stipulations found in the Colorado Constitution in Article 2 would be keenly relevant as they form the basis of Colorado law:

Section 3. Inalienable rights. All persons have certain natural, essential and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; of acquiring, possessing and protecting property; and of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

Section 13. Right to bear arms. The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.

Nowhere in any Colorado Revised Statute is there language so straightforward or unambiguous as found in Section 13. The right of NO PERSON to keep and bear arms <snip> shall be called in question. Note that it makes a clear distinction between this right and carrying concealed. It is obvious and straightforward endorsement of open carry. It is the only place I am aware of that speaks directly to open carry as a fundamental right of a citizen.

Considering the former LEO in particular, this completely undermines his claim to the contrary, and eliminates any argument as to the right of open carry by this or any other law abiding citizen. Section 3 illustrates that our right to means of defense of our lives, property and safety is inalienable and a natural right.

As the former LEO was advising them (incorrectly I might add) on whether OC was legal or not at the time of the incident, and they believed him rather than the citizen, I think the specific parts of the Colorado Constitution referenced above become extremely relevant.

My opinion, IANAL!.

Apart from that one specific issue of debate, the balance of your response to the OP was spot on the money! Right on target!
Well done!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Maybe take a friend...Volunteers?.

I willingly volunteer for any efforts in furtherance of the right of OC. It is something I do as often as possible.
I'd be hapopy to volunteer to tag along.
 
Last edited:

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Howdy Kingfish!
I don't believe that the Colorado Constitution is in the least irrelevant
It is irrelevant to Denver. It is irrelevant to cities who ban carry in public buildings. It is irrelevant to cities who think they can ban carry in ALL parks and open spaces. It is irrelevant to the state legislature when they ban carry on public transportation (that includes elevators), carry while "under the influence" (whatever that means) and a few others I am leaving out.

My suggestion would be to take a writeup on OC laws...This may very well include a summary of the constitution(s). Just carrying the constitution(s) and saying...I HAVE THE RIGHT is not going to do a damn bit of good.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
It is irrelevant to Denver. It is irrelevant to cities who ban carry in public buildings. It is irrelevant to cities who think they can ban carry in ALL parks and open spaces. It is irrelevant to the state legislature when they ban carry on public transportation (that includes elevators), carry while "under the influence" (whatever that means) and a few others I am leaving out.

Howdy Kingfish!
You are right about specific exceptions indicated above, and until those are challenged in some manner before a court of law, they'll be taken at face value. Be that as it may, the incident under consideration didn't happen in Denver, nor a public building where such bans are in place, nor parks or open spaces, etc.

That being said, I get your point and acknowledge specific examples of exceptions; none of which apply to whether their former LEO security guy gave correct information, which he did not.

My suggestion would be to take a writeup on OC laws...This may very well include a summary of the constitution(s). Just carrying the constitution(s) and saying...I HAVE THE RIGHT is not going to do a damn bit of good.

As I mentioned earlier, there are no CRS that give specific endorsement so clearly as Article 2, section 13 of the Colorado Constitution. As the Constitution of the United States in general, and the Colorado Constitution in particular, any laws must conform to those fundamental documents. While many are passed that are contrary to those fundamental documents, they face being struck down in courts that look to those foundation documents to whether the law itself passes constitutional muster.

We had a law passed in Colorado... actually it was a Constitutional Amendment, the infamous Amendment 2; basically stipulated that gay, lesbian and bisexual folks had no rights at all. It paved the way for any employer to fire a person based on their identity as GLBT type folks, and also stipulated they could be denied housing or other basic rights as citizens of our state. The case was heard in district court and found unconstitutional. It was taken up to the Colorado Supreme Court, and again, found unconstitutional. Eventually it landed at SCOTUS and finally ended there.

The point isn't to make a federal case out of anything, and I don't really expect anybody to challenge banning open carry in the courts all the way to the Colorado Supreme Court; which would be costly and time consuming. I'd be of the opinion that if that should happen, the law might face defeat there, but that's another topic.

In reference to this specific case, with this specific set of details, and in particular, the specific former LEO who believed OC to be illegal, this particular section 13 makes abundantly clear that he is wrong in his belief. By undermining the sole source of reference upon which the manager on duty relied in 86'ing our fellow OC'er, their reason for ousting him from their store collapses. Taken together with their corporate policy to abide by local law as pertains to carry, it becomes salient. As there is no CRS that speaks directly to open carry being legal, the language of section 13 makes clear that it is his right. Whether the business in question 'must' adhere to the right of the individual is another question altogether. But it does set precedent for them to adhere to corporate policy, and gives them a specific source of verbage to review their reliance on the former LEO as a source of whether the person removed from their location was acting within the law or in violation. In one instance, they have justification to support their decision, in the other, not so much.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but would believe the language of section 13 is unknown to most Coloradoans, and when relied upon, speaks clearly enough about the right of a citizen to open carry. Colorado laws do not state anywhere I am aware that open carry is legal. They speak to what is not legal, as a general rule. The exception being the so called "make my day" law, that specifically states that somebody who shoots an intruder (within defined parameters) is immune to criminal or civil prosecution. Despite the law making that statement in unambiguous terms, those who have invoked it still (nevertheless) endured prosecution attempts to bring charges against them. In other words, specific laws (not unlike Constitutional Articles) can be ignored by ambitious folks looking to nail somebody for what they (in their opinion) regard as a violation.

In this case, we have a former LEO who advanced an opinion that the management relied upon in their decision to boot a citizen from their store.
The best evidence in the clearest language that they should not have taken the opinion as gospel would be section 13.

If anybody knows of any CRS that states we have legal grounds for Open Carry, please post it so we may all benefit.

Thanks in advance,
Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
If anybody knows of any CRS that states we have legal grounds for Open Carry, please post it so we may all benefit.
You talk a lot but you don't like to listen do you?
kingfish said:
Maybe a summary of OC law from a reputable source....Just to show that it is legal.
Just showing the constitution(s) does NOT show that OC is legal. Just like it does not show that OC is legal in Denver, some public buildings, outdoor spaces or the elevator at the mall. Legislatures regularly disregard the constitution. If this was in Denver, what good would taking the constitution do?

I am sure there is a writeup somewhere that shows WHY and HOW and WHERE OC is legal....Because it is NOT legal everywhere as the constitution(s) require.
 
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