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This is why you don't break into a soldiers house on some bogus charges...

Gunslinger

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Mar 6, 2008
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Free, Colorado, USA
I suppose we ought to thank Nixon for this decades-long War on Drugs that has been effective at mass incarceration, murder, and a robust Police State.

Wow. Now it's Nixon's fault. Of course no ******* democrap, including the jackass in the whitehouse now, can ever be at fault. Who's next? Lincoln?
 

ManInBlack

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Jul 2, 2006
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SW Idaho
Wow. Now it's Nixon's fault. Of course no ******* democrap, including the jackass in the whitehouse now, can ever be at fault. Who's next? Lincoln?

Actually, I'd submit that Lincoln, along with FDR, set most of the precedents for the problems we have now vis-a-vis overreach of federal power. Obama is working hard to take that title, but he still has a ways to go.

The larger point (and more obvious for everyone except Beretta) is that no president, and very few politicians, have had the courage to stand up and say, "Enough; killing and imprisoning people for what they put into their own bloodstreams is wrong."

I just read an article about Obama's drug czar, former Seattle police chief Gil Kerlikowske, talking about a "third way" between legalization and incarceration. Instead of incarcerating citizens, which costs money the government doesn't have, they will still be arrested, but ordered into treatment programs. That way, the government can charge court costs and "fees" for the "treatment" for their marijuana "addictions." Extend control and increase revenue generation; what good statist wouldn't like that?

BARACK OBAMA HOPE AND CHANGE
 
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Gunslinger

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I agree I didnt see if any weed was found. also if any maybe it was a small amount thats why it didnt brake the news. I almost didnt want to open this story up because of how much it gets to me. Iv had my home raided by police when I was 16 in the city of port washington wi.

All because of peoples gossip. The police were told I had a full auto riffle and large amount of pot. Thats what was in there report. They found nothing in my house not a single illegal thing. Cops broke my door pinned me down while I was asleep and cuffed me. Same done to my brother. My mom and younger sister were told to sit outside. On my livingroom floor is where they sat me and my brother. They tore up our home, cussed at us, pushed us down on the floor for moving. Yet they had nothing on us but bad information from someone. I have a vary vary deep hatred for LEO in that town since then. (not all LEO aare bad people some are vary nice I shoot with one ecery now and again) but bad info or wrong house could be the reason they went there.

But back on topic I hate reading about this because of how much it gets on my nerves I hope he gets out of these horible charges

The SS kick down his door at 3AM. 12 heavily armed swat clowns with a 'search warrant' for MJ, not an arrest warrant for terrorist activity, child molestation, or murder. The homeowner--accused of 'nothing,' defends himself against the invaders. He should get damages and a citation. With the jackass in the whitehouse, and his imbecile bootlicker as "attorney" general, this has become a police state. 4 more years of these dirtbags and it will become a civil war. The mentality is trickling down and the results speak for themselves. My heart doesn't go out to the dead Stormtrooper "hero"--who was probably shot by his fellow thugs, it goes out to the innocent man being charged for defending himself and his home.
 

zack991

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Jul 29, 2009
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Ohio, USA
Stories like this make my blood boil, if i was a wealthy man I would pay 100% for the best attorneys to people like this. The DEA,FBI, ATF and the rest of alphabet punks in suits and our political leaders are the reason there is so much contempt for our government in this country. Its sad the states want to act like the federal government in crossing that thin red line. The people are getting fed up with this type of Gestapo tactic with no accountability. They are backing a very large dog in a corner and they are going to get bit. I hope some pro bono group takes up this case and drys up every penny that PD has and every officer cant even get a Job as a walmart security guard.
 
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Morbidph8

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Oct 12, 2011
Messages
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Location
Apache Junction, AZ
Stuff like this pisses me off bad.

Here is a similar incident in Utah. Man wakes up to people breaking in (the swat team.) he gets out of bed with a golf club, and gets murdered. (WARNING GRAPHIC VIDS)

[video=youtube;WV6Bq8xeQrU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6Bq8xeQrU&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsear ch_query%3Ddrug%2Braid%2Butah%26oq%3Ddrug%2Braid%2 Butah%26aq%3Df%26aqi%3D%26aql%3D%26gs_l%3Dyoutube. 3...2340.4542.0.5009.14.13.0.0.0.0.258.1894.0j6j4. 10.0...0.0.[/video]
 

Morbidph8

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Messages
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Apache Junction, AZ
Another :(

Here is another where the cops just had to murder the family dogs...

[video=youtube;9itWfKNSNCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9itWfKNSNCE[/video]

Both victims only had very small amounts of cannabis. They were not drug kingpins. There was no need for a swat team..
Welcome to the Police State... :(

I remember a while ago listing to Coast to Coast AM. They were talking to a black water guy. He was talking about how the military conducts raids in Iraq. Funny thing, they had rules. Like you have to wait till day light. You had to ask nicely for them to come out. I can't remember all the rules of raids for the military. I just kept thinking. Why do they treat them better in times of war then they treat us at home??? :(
 
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Dogbait

Regular Member
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Apr 8, 2010
Messages
155
Location
Oregon
Here is a similar incident in Utah. Man wakes up to people breaking in (the swat team.) he gets out of bed with a golf club, and gets murdered. (WARNING GRAPHIC VIDS)

[video=youtube;WV6Bq8xeQrU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6Bq8xeQrU&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsear ch_query%3Ddrug%2Braid%2Butah%26oq%3Ddrug%2Braid%2 Butah%26aq%3Df%26aqi%3D%26aql%3D%26gs_l%3Dyoutube. 3...2340.4542.0.5009.14.13.0.0.0.0.258.1894.0j6j4. 10.0...0.0.[/video]

Wow..


Police: Get on the ground... *Pop* *Pop* *Pop*


.... No time for the guy to even react to their commands.
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Here is a similar incident in Utah. Man wakes up to people breaking in (the swat team.) he gets out of bed with a golf club, and gets murdered. (WARNING GRAPHIC VIDS)

Unbelievable.

A citizen who has harmed no persons or property should have zero expectation of contact with law enforcement, much less to have them break down his door in the middle of the night like a gang of common thieves.

You can only act like private-sector criminal gangs for so long before someone decides to treat you like the public-sector criminal gangs that you have become. I think that's what we've seen in the OP.

I don't think forum rules would permit me to say what I really want to say, so I'll just say this:

Jury nullification is more critical now than at any time in our history. Please educate everyone you know.

"We have four boxes with which to defend our freedom: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box."
-Larry McDonald
 

Beretta92FSLady

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Dec 14, 2009
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In My Coffee
Here is a similar incident in Utah. Man wakes up to people breaking in (the swat team.) he gets out of bed with a golf club, and gets murdered. (WARNING GRAPHIC VIDS)

[video=youtube;WV6Bq8xeQrU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6Bq8xeQrU&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsear ch_query%3Ddrug%2Braid%2Butah%26oq%3Ddrug%2Braid%2 Butah%26aq%3Df%26aqi%3D%26aql%3D%26gs_l%3Dyoutube. 3...2340.4542.0.5009.14.13.0.0.0.0.258.1894.0j6j4. 10.0...0.0.[/video]

That video is gut-wrenching. It's amazing that they gave him zero seconds to comply. It looked like the guy wasn't sure what the hell was going on. Then you have a homeowner who starts shooting because he thinks he's under attack and he is looking at the death penalty.

My wife, and me have talked about this. If an officer draws down on you you either fight back, and get the death penalty, or stand there and get the death penalty. They are immune, you are not. They can take your life from you, and won't lose a second thought to it. That's why citizens usually lose in shootouts with police, because the police have no doubt they will be justified, the citizen knows there are consequences for a bad shoot and hesitate for just a moment.

Welcome to our delightful Police State.
 
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Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
This no knock warrant crap is out of control. They should only be issued in extreme cases. If you knock on my door at 4am I will cautiously investigate. If you kick the door in without warning, expect a similar greeting. :rolleyes: In my area Metro-Detroit it is common to hear commanders & cheifs speak about their officers as (troops), my question is - since when did peace officers become troops? This is not Iraq, atleast not yet :(

Sent from my Polaroid PMID701i using Tapatalk 2
 

Beretta92FSLady

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This no knock warrant crap is out of control. They should only be issued in extreme cases. If you knock on my door at 4am I will cautiously investigate. If you kick the door in without warning, expect a similar greeting. :rolleyes: In my area Metro-Detroit it is common to hear commanders & cheifs speak about their officers as (troops), my question is - since when did peace officers become troops? This is not Iraq, atleast not yet :(

Sent from my Polaroid PMID701i using Tapatalk 2

If someone is kicking my door in at 4 a.m., I don;t give a rats-a$$ what they're screaming, I will be armed, and shooting when they come through my door. When you have committed no crimes, and have the expectation of such. A reasonable person would think they are under attack by some thugs.

Police have militarized over the year on the premise that "we live in a different, more dangerous world." What's funny is the police and their distant relationship from the public is pronounced. I had my children take a photo with an officer, and he was so stoic, and serious, it was insane. I wonder sometimes why the hell they need to pound it into the officers heads over, and over again that every person is a threat to their lives.

You are right, this is not Iraq...but it will be in time, I promise.
 

Dreamer

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Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
Already a couple of the faithful have sent in checks for a foundation memorial to the innocents who perished at the hands of the ninja at Waco. ... I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as "ninja" … Let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic. It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view

Jeff Cooper

I would take umbrage at calling these government-sanctioned thugs "ninja" as well. Maybe it is more accurate to call them "samuri"--they are beholden to their "masters" and do their bidding regardless of morals, ethics or rule of law. They get their funding though extortion, taxes and shakedowns. Samuri were, after all, the enforcement branch of the medieval Japanese feudal aristocracy.

Ninja, OTOH, were not beholden to any man. They were "free-lancers" and often operated against the power structure.

Calling these ski-mask wearing badged thugs "ninja" does a grave disservice to the history of ninjutsu...
 
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Gil223

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Messages
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Location
Weber County Utah
The Todd Blair shooting was a knee-jerk reaction from a supposedly seasoned LEO - a Roy PD Sergeant - not some rookie straight out of POST. The suspect wasn't given any time to comply prior to being shot, and the officer's excuse was "He had some silver thing. ... I thought it was a sword or something... It was silverish and thin. I didn't think about saying words. I just thought about not getting hit, or slashed or whatever." He admits that he didn't think Blair was moving toward him.

"Monday morning quarterbacking" is always an easy job, but... if the subject wasn't moving toward the officer, why did he feel the need t use deadly force? It sounds to me like a situation that could have been handled by a taser. (But, I wasn't in that darkened house, my adrenaline wasn't pumping, and I wasn't concerned about finishing my shift and getting home to the wife and kids.) Pax...
 
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TechnoWeenie

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I have two weapons for CQB, both penetrate body armor (up to level 4)

What this guy did, was accomplished by a 9mm pistol...

I can only imagine what AP 5.56/7.62 would do to these guys...

I would not be running into the living room, or in any line of fire, I'll be waiting in a defensive position that's tactically sound, where I can get the first shots off. I have lots of brick and concrete around me.... so while they have 5.56 which is not designed to go through such barriers, I have 7.62, which will...

I know the layout of my house, robbers don't.

Anyone kicking in my door is a threat, and because I have no reason to believe it would be the police, that means it has to be a home invasion.

See sig.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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The Todd Blair shooting was a knee-jerk reaction from a supposedly seasoned LEO - a Roy PD Sergeant - not some rookie straight out of POST. The suspect wasn't given any time to comply prior to being shot, and the officer's excuse was "He had some silver thing. ... I thought it was a sword or something... It was silverish and thin. I didn't think about saying words. I just thought about not getting hit, or slashed or whatever." He admits that he didn't think Blair was moving toward him.

"Monday morning quarterbacking" is always an easy job, but... if the subject wasn't moving toward the officer, why did he feel the need t use deadly force? It sounds to me like a situation that could have been handled by a taser. (But, I wasn't in that darkened house, my adrenaline wasn't pumping, and I wasn't concerned about finishing my shift and getting home to the wife and kids.) Pax...

As you posted, the officer acknowledges that the individual WAS NOT moving towards him--basically, the officer admitted that he murdered the guy. The officer admitted that the individual was not a imminent threat. The latter portion of your post concerning adrenaline is irrelevant as far as I am concerned; it stands to reason that the officer would have more self-control than the average citizen since he is trained to handle stressful encounters like this, and he is a Seasoned Officer, as you stated. He murder the individual, period.
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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I have two weapons for CQB, both penetrate body armor (up to level 4)

What this guy did, was accomplished by a 9mm pistol...

I can only imagine what AP 5.56/7.62 would do to these guys...

I would not be running into the living room, or in any line of fire, I'll be waiting in a defensive position that's tactically sound, where I can get the first shots off. I have lots of brick and concrete around me.... so while they have 5.56 which is not designed to go through such barriers, I have 7.62, which will...

I know the layout of my house, robbers don't.

Anyone kicking in my door is a threat, and because I have no reason to believe it would be the police, that means it has to be a home invasion.

See sig.

Personally, I would be hunkered down. The time you definitely don't want to be standing with your body exposed is when you are being rushed by some thugs kicking your door in, and intent on doing whatever tickles their fancy if they get hold of you and your family.

Individuals forget that the best position is the homeowners position since they know the layout of the home.
 

MKEgal

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MSG Laigaie said:
Twelve came thru the door. He got half of them.
A credit to his training.

Beretta92FSLady said:
If someone is kicking my door in at 4 a.m., I don't give a rats-a$$ what they're screaming, I will be armed, and shooting when they come through my door. When you have committed no crimes, and have the expectation of such, a reasonable person would think they are under attack by some thugs.
BTDT, but the judge didn't seem to think that this viewpoint is reasonable.
In fact, he seems to think that it's unreasonable to be questioning whether or not the people showing up uninvited at your door are the officers they claim to be.
Forget that they're not in uniform, or at least not the ones you see at first.
Forget that you get a 1-second glimpse of a badge before it's put away.
That's supposed to convince you it's a police officer & you're supposed to joyfully throw open the door & welcome them in with cookies & milk.

I agree that someone who hasn't done anything wrong shouldn't have to fear the police using force against her in any way. It's a nice goal.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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A credit to his training.


BTDT, but the judge didn't seem to think that this viewpoint is reasonable.
In fact, he seems to think that it's unreasonable to be questioning whether or not the people showing up uninvited at your door are the officers they claim to be.
Forget that they're not in uniform, or at least not the ones you see at first.
Forget that you get a 1-second glimpse of a badge before it's put away.
That's supposed to convince you it's a police officer & you're supposed to joyfully throw open the door & welcome them in with cookies & milk.

I agree that someone who hasn't done anything wrong shouldn't have to fear the police using force against her in any way. It's a nice goal.

You decide whether the judge's view on the matter is relevant or not in the whole scheme of things.

Remember that the officers had flashlights on their sidearms which means the homeowner probably couldn't identify who the officers were because he had lights beaming in his eyes.
 

Gil223

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The latter portion of your post concerning adrenaline is irrelevant as far as I am concerned; it stands to reason that the officer would have more self-control than the average citizen since he is trained to handle stressful encounters like this, and he is a Seasoned Officer, as you stated. He murder the individual, period.

Unfortunately, LEO's are human beings, and as such are subject to all the emotions the rest of we mortals must deal with - each in our own unique way - and we must resolve those emotions in our own time, whatever that may be. Inasmuch as we "civilians" are not generally under significant duress, we can take whatever time we need to work through our problems. LEO's frequently must make decisions in milliseconds that will determine who walks away from an armed confrontation, and who leaves in a body bag. Would you prefer that some "mad scientist" create genetically modified humans specifically designed to function as LEO's... and present us with something simlilar to Robocop? I seriously doubt you would. The ability to make split-second decisions to engage or not engage, deploy the appropriate weapon, and neutralize (or not) the perceived threat based upon pure logic - without an ort of human compassion - would have the libtards rioting in the streets! When you are wearing a uniform - police or military - and sent out to do a job that may require the use of deadly force, most people will find themselves in "survival mode". This is not an excuse for (what we may see as) poor judgment calls, but rather an explanation of the human condition. I would imagine that Todd Blair was in that mode "survival mode" when he was awakened from his sleep by the sound of his door being breached, and several people shouting loudly (I undoubtedly would be). At that time we function not so much on rational thought (we hear words, but they may be indistinguishable in our not-quite-awake condition), instead we instinctively go into survival mode. The police should know and understand this, and be prepared to use the minimum force necessary to control and subdue the subject. If Blair had exited his bedroom with a shotgun, rifle, or handgun he should have been the "second place winner" in the ensuing confrontation. The police were also in "survival mode", but fully awake, alert and acutely aware of the possibility of a confrontation since they had not been invited into the home by the occupant. However, Blair was at a severe disadvantage. Would I have reacted in the same manner as Blair? No. I would have grabbed my Glock from the night table and taken the best available cover in my bedroom, been at the ready (whatever "ready" I was capable of arousing), tried to compose my senses, and waited for an entry. What happened next would have been dependent upon the type of entry.

The JNTF was dispatched to Blair's residence to do their job. I do not have access to how they were instructed to actually execute their warrant, so I cannot comment further on that aspect. Was the phrase, "...consider the subject to be armed and dangerous..." used in any part of their briefing? I have no way of knowing. Do I think it was a "clean shoot"? Based only upon what was reported - and the video - I think it was an unnecessary shooting. If I were on a shooting review board, I would not hold the officer blameless... but, I wouldn't recommend he be charged with homicide either. Did the LEO demonstrate bad judgment? Yes, but bad judgement is not a criminal offense. Inappropriate use of deadly force? Probably, but mitigated by what the officer perceived as a potentially deadly threat. I believe that an individual's perception of a situation is the "truth of the matter" for that individual, especially when his/her survival may depend upon a dissected second. Blair believed he was under attack. The police believed his response to their entry to be a threat. Criminal intent by either party? No. A tragically avoidable ending? Definitely... any non-involved Monday Morning Quarterback can see that. Pax...
 
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