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Thread: Spokane LEO Encounter

  1. #51
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Rapgood referenced multiple incidents,
    the spokane reference was correct, and brewster didn't comment on that, he was correcting the 2nd "incident" which had some cross over from an non LEO child shooting in Tacoma , a 3yr old in Tacoma, killing himself,(not LEO)

    The Marysville LEO incident was a younger son, killing an older sister with the Dad's pistol.
    Thank you for reading the whole post!
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  2. #52
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    Although this case made it beyond the evidentiary hearing, the case was overturned on appeal.

    http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/in...name=411857MAJ

    There are a lot of parallels to open carry here:
    Bookmarked thanks Mainsail!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm9584 View Post

    "I haven't been asked to leave by the Management and i believe Open Carry is legal in Washington. Is that correct, Sir?", Me.

    "I'm not sure, but there are kids here. Why don't you at least cover it up?", LEO 2.

    -J
    Inform the uniformed of TRAINING BULLETIN No. 08-007 September 30 , 2008.

    ..."In the State of Washington it is not illegal to merely “open carry” a firearm in public, provided the firearm is holstered or somehow affixed to an individual’s person and not in their hand available, but not threatening to others."...

  4. #54
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    I have this info linked in my New to OC thread:


    RAS(Reasonable Articulated Suspicion, Detentions and Arrests)

    Detentions and Arrests, info and definitions by cowboyridn

    Detention descriptions, consensual and when to walk away. An informational read

    3 Different levels of Police/Citizen encounters Explained

    4th and 5th Amendment Resources by user Citizen

    This section authorizes officers to demand identification only when a person is suspected of committing a crime, but does not govern the lawfulness of requests for identification in other circumstances. State v. Griffith, 2000 WI 72, 236 Wis. 2d 48, 613 N.W.2d 72, 98-0931.
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr
    52 F.3d 194 UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. Coye Denise GREEN, Defendant-Appellant. No. 94-1675. United States Court of App

    Regalado v. State, 25 So. 3d 600 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 4th Dist. 2009
    "Despite the obvious potential danger to officers and the public by a person in possession of a concealed gun in a crowd, this is not illegal in Florida unless the person does not have a concealed weapons permit, a fact that an officer cannot glean by mere observation. Based upon our understanding of both Florida and United States Supreme Court precedent, stopping a person solely on the ground that the individual possesses a gun violates the Fourth Amendment."


    In evaluating the validity of investigatory stops, we must consider the "totality of the circumstances--the whole picture." United States v. Sokolow, 490 U.S. 1, 8, 109 S.Ct. 1581, 1585, 104 L.Ed.2d 1 (1989) (quoting United States v. Cortez, 449 U.S. 411, 417, 101 S.Ct. 690, 695, 66 L.Ed.2d 621 (1981)). Reasonable suspicion must derive from more than an "inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or 'hunch.' " Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 27, 88 S.Ct. 1868, 1883, 20 L.Ed.2d 889 (1968). Moreover, "[c]onduct typical of a broad category of innocent people provides a weak basis for suspicion." United States v. Weaver, 966 F.2d 391, 394 (8th Cir.) (quoting United States v. Crawford, 891 F.2d 680, 681 (8th Cir.1989)), cert. denied, --- U.S. ----, 113 S.Ct. 829, 121 L.Ed.2d 699 (1992).

    A number of the factors relied upon by Carrill can be characterized as "conduct typical of a broad category of innocent people." Weaver, 966 F.2d at 394. We reject the notion that Green's travelling alone, carrying a small bag, wearing new and baggy clothes, and failing to make eye contact with Carrill, are in any way indicative of criminal activity. Thus, these factors cannot play a role in assessing the validity of the investigatory stop.

    Under Florida v. J.L., an anonymous tip giving rise to reasonable suspicion must bear indicia of reliability. That the tipster's anonymity is placed at risk indicates that the informant is genuinely concerned and not a fallacious prankster. Corroborated aspects of the tip also lend credibility; the corroborated actions of the suspect need be inherently criminal in and of themselves., 2001 WI 21, 241 Wis. 2d 631, 623 N.W.2d 106, 96-1821. State v. Williams

    An anonymous tip is not RAS

    ID'ing yourself discussion
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  5. #55
    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Spokane County Sheriffs Training Bulletin

    I just have a scanned copy that I finally dug up.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    This was handled like a true champ!!!

    What do you mean by what you said?This was handled like a true champ!!!?
    It was rude and gives me a bad name as I open carry.Not talking is ok with you guys is nuts.

  7. #57
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by okkid View Post
    What do you mean by what you said?This was handled like a true champ!!!?
    It was rude and gives me a bad name as I open carry.Not talking is ok with you guys is nuts.
    kthnxbai

    Try reading the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments, and get back to us.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 05-03-2012 at 12:27 AM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by okkid View Post
    What do you mean by what you said?This was handled like a true champ!!!?
    It was rude and gives me a bad name as I open carry.Not talking is ok with you guys is nuts.
    OK with me, I recommend silence as a matter of fact so do thousands of lawyers nation wide.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    kthnxbai

    Try reading the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments, and get back to us.

    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attacks. Feel free to disagree but disagree on issues. Do not resort to name calling.
    Last edited by John Pierce; 05-04-2012 at 09:03 AM.

  10. #60
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by okkid View Post
    Try being a human and get back to me smartass like all the others here you ask a ?
    and this is what you get.This is why so many of you have problems with the law.
    I have had a gun on me for over 20 yrs and never never had a problem like most of you.
    I have never had a problem, either...precisely because I know and exercise my rights.

    Its ok to not give info to cops but to be right out dumdass is most of the problem I see on this forum.
    How is it "dumdass" (lol) to simply remain silent? If he had told the cop, "I have nothing to say to you, bye," you, no doubt, would be complaining that he was rude! The only response folks like you will accept is immediate, slavish obedience.

    I know you will say if you dont like it then leave as I will do but no one can get on here and say
    whats on there mind and if its not want you want to see then you have a smart ass tude.
    If you don't like it, stay. I find you amusing and entertaining.

    So big guy get back to me on this OK wow you just cant fix STUPID.
    You got that right.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 05-04-2012 at 12:30 AM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  11. #61
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    OK with me, I recommend silence as a matter of fact so do thousands of lawyers nation wide.
    Yep
    I've even had a judges recommend that.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    I have never had a problem, either...precisely because I know and exercise my rights.



    How is "dumdass" (lol) to simply remain silent? If he had told the cop, "I have nothing to say to you, bye," you, no doubt, would be complaining that he was rude! The only response folks like you will accept is immediate, slavish obedience.



    If you don't like it, stay. I find you amusing and entertaining.



    You got that right.
    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack
    Last edited by John Pierce; 05-04-2012 at 09:05 AM.

  13. #63
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okkid View Post
    What do you mean by what you said?This was handled like a true champ!!!?
    It was rude and gives me a bad name as I open carry.Not talking is ok with you guys is nuts.
    He wasn't rude, he does not give open carry a bad name. He simply, efficiently exercised the rights afforded to us by Providence, bound forever by our Founders in the Constitution and beloved by modern day patriots everywhere.
    Live Free or Die!

  14. #64
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    He wasn't rude, he does not give open carry a bad name. He simply, efficiently exercised the rights afforded to us by Providence, bound forever by our Founders in the Constitution and beloved by modern day patriots everywhere.
    And it worked! It was the first time I actually saw and witnessed someone say that little. It's a good example on how to exercise the right against an unwarranted intrusion of gov.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #65
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    the four police that responded to the likely Man with a Gun is interesting, watch the very end, another officer walks by him a cruiser drives by and another is parked on a side street.

  16. #66
    Regular Member CrossBow33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    Yeah, what do I know, it's not like I've ever been detained, or cuffed, or arrested for open carry.
    Now...now!!!

  17. #67
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    the four police that responded to the likely Man with a Gun is interesting, watch the very end, another officer walks by him a cruiser drives by and another is parked on a side street.
    I thought maybe the one that walked by was tied to the cruiser parked on the right side as he proceeded up the road. Not that it matters, other than he was free to go. I did get a chuckle out of the walking officer's, "Have a good day." statement.

  18. #68
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    MIB - To be clear, i agree and concede on the presenting ID if not required to issue. I did it only because i'm not as sure of the law in Washington in regards to requirements to identify. Something i need to brush up on and will be sure to exercise my rights about the next time an incident happens. My issue was just with passing the Mil-ID versus, say, a DL...not with passing an ID at all.

    Thanks to all for the info. Also, that copy of the training bulletin should be useful. I think i'll print out a copy of that, along with several of the open carry brochures to keep with me for times i am out and about. In fact, one would have come in handy just the other day at wal-mart when i was approached by an odd gentleman who was quite sure i was committing a crime by being in a store with a holstered pistol. Now i know

  19. #69
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  20. #70
    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm9584 View Post
    MIB - To be clear, i agree and concede on the presenting ID if not required to issue. I did it only because i'm not as sure of the law in Washington in regards to requirements to identify. Something i need to brush up on and will be sure to exercise my rights about the next time an incident happens. My issue was just with passing the Mil-ID versus, say, a DL...not with passing an ID at all.

    Thanks to all for the info. Also, that copy of the training bulletin should be useful. I think i'll print out a copy of that, along with several of the open carry brochures to keep with me for times i am out and about. In fact, one would have come in handy just the other day at wal-mart when i was approached by an odd gentleman who was quite sure i was committing a crime by being in a store with a holstered pistol. Now i know
    Have you been OC in Spokane long JM? I've been tO Wally world in the valley a lot without issues.... Havent been north or Scareway Heights OC though.. If we ever meet up I've got a good stack of OC handouts I got from GoGoDawgs when I was on the wet side a few months ago.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor80 View Post
    Have you been OC in Spokane long JM? I've been tO Wally world in the valley a lot without issues.... Havent been north or Scareway Heights OC though.. If we ever meet up I've got a good stack of OC handouts I got from GoGoDawgs when I was on the wet side a few months ago.
    Approximately a year. I've never had issues with employees/management at any Wal-Mart, and that was the first time a shopper approached me in a negative manner. It was at the North one, the non-supercenter Wal-Mart. The man was an odd fellow... lol.

    Yeah, handouts would be great in cases like that. Or, even better, for the "I didn't know you could do that..." instances. If i ever see you around, i'd be obliged for a few to take around. Until then, i'll print a few out at home.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm9584 View Post
    Approximately a year. I've never had issues with employees/management at any Wal-Mart, and that was the first time a shopper approached me in a negative manner. It was at the North one, the non-supercenter Wal-Mart. The man was an odd fellow... lol.

    Yeah, handouts would be great in cases like that. Or, even better, for the "I didn't know you could do that..." instances. If i ever see you around, i'd be obliged for a few to take around. Until then, i'll print a few out at home.
    I have about a thousand handouts and would be glad to give them out. Just figure out a time and place to meet.

  23. #73
    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    JM9584, did you ever contact the Sheriffs Office and explain your encounter and get a response from them? Just wanted to follow up since this thread has been pushed down a few pages.

    -Thor

  24. #74
    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    OC at Lowe's in the Spokane Valley yesterday afternoon. Not a second look or a word from any of the employees. Got a startled look from one woman though. Just after that I went down a side aisle out of her sight. When I came back around into the main aisle I heard her say "There he is." Looked over my shoulder and saw her pointing me out to a couple of employees in the paint department. Kept on with my business and checked out without any issues with any of the employees. Guess she didn't get whatever reaction she was hoping for.
    IAALBIAAFTDPASNIPHCBCALA
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  25. #75
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Just sitting here thinking, how much training the dispatchers need. They could save everyone so much time and trouble.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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