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Thread: "i don't blame the economy, i blame guns."

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    "i don't blame the economy, i blame guns."

    "I don't blame the economy, I blame guns." This was the comment made by the mother of a convenience store clerk in Aurora, CO after her son - the clerk on duty - was shot during an armed robbery (Surveillance video of the shooting and robbery below)

    http://www.9news.com/news/article/26...bbery-shooting

    The unthinking - and the ignorant - always seek to put blame on the gun, an inanimate object. Yet the gun is just a tool - a tool misused by those who are too lazy to work a job themselves, so they use that tool to relieve others of their earnings. Punishing the gun, or more accurately the law abiding owners of guns, would simply result in the use of other "tools" to commit crimes. So, just to be sure, let's also ban machetes, knives, baseball bats, golf clubs, lumber, spear guns, axe handles, hammers, screwdrivers, anything pointy and cars while we're "making the public safer". I'm sure there are many other things that could be incorporated into that list of evil tools. I have a unique idea... let's put the blame on the criminals, and start doubling their "minimum mandatory" sentences when they use a firearm to facilitate the commission of any crime. If they fire that weapon during the crime, increase the minimum sentence to 15 years. Further, if the projectile they fired should strike anybody - 25 years minimum! Just my thoughts. Pax...
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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Idealists may be disheartened by the expanding amount of firearms in private stocks throughout the country, but when we estimate that there are over 90 guns per 100 people legally held in this country, there is essentially zero chance of seizing these or otherwise "getting them off the street".

    The sensible person who is concerned with public safety ought to seek longer sentences for violent felons and prudent investments in education.

    Wasting public funds on enforcing unenforceable laws that have little to no redeeming public safety value is a snipe hunt.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Yea, since mandatory minimums have worked wonders; take mandatory minimums for crack possession. Then what will we have, an individual that is even more institutionalized after doing a fifteen year stint ans opposed to a seven year stint. Yea, society would be a much 'better' place if we increase mandatory minimums.

    We ignore the root of most of these issues; they aren't firearms; they aren't our Nation NOT being tough on crime. They are Economic, they are Cultural.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ....and sometimes folks are just thugs without any environmental factors to excuse their thugness.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ....and sometimes folks are just thugs without any environmental factors to excuse their thugness.
    I'm not disputing that. You mean to tell me that the African American population has that high of a percentage of people that are "just thugs?"
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Good grief !!! I hardly know where to begin my rant on this one.


    1. Convenience store is owned by the clerk's parents = the family chooses to operate a business that is unquestionably at the top of the "preferred provider" directory for those who engage in this "cowardly way to make their money" - Are these people for real ? The "cowards" (really ???) - I could have sworn they were armed robbers and attempted murderers.

    2. Since Mom & POP actually OWN this C/S - what has precluded THEM from taking measure to enhance their safety and security - such as a having of a protective bullet resistant barrier at the counter, absolutely no one works alone in OUR family owned C/S at any time policy, and perhaps considering investing in one of those "evil" guns for their own protection.

    My initial sympathy for this family is withering rapidly since they come across not only as apologists for the criminals who shot the son, and robbed them of their hard-earned fruits of labor.

    But that ignorant display of utter stupidity is not enough. They decide to mount their own little Mom & Pop war on the right to bear arms , while seemingly being unable to connect the finger of the sociopath to the trigger on HIS GUN. PHHHEEEEWWWW.......!!! Let me out of here !

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    [snippers] Let me out of here !
    Welcome:
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm not disputing that. You mean to tell me that the African American population has that high of a percentage of people that are "just thugs?"
    My be, I do not know one way or the other, geographically speaking. As a segment of the population, likely not. But anecdotal evidence is singularly compelling.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm not disputing that. You mean to tell me that the African American population has that high of a percentage of people that are "just thugs?"
    OK, Ms. Sharpton, would you like a spincasting reel to go with that race bait?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    A mother complaining about he lost child ... give it the weight it deserves .. but she has the right to blame whoever/whatever she likes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm not disputing that. You mean to tell me that the African American population has that high of a percentage of people that are "just thugs?"
    Its taboo to answer that question.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm not disputing that. You mean to tell me that the African American population has that high of a percentage of people that are "just thugs?"
    While I agree there are cultural and economic disparities throughout the country it seems your comment was designed purposefully to denigrate people of color, specifically the entire African American population. Are you disputing something or are you seeking meaningful conversation? I do not mean to put words in someone else's mouth but I did not interpret OC for ME the same way it appears you did. Sometimes there are bad apples among the "human race" and they must live with the decisions they make despite their color, environment, and economic condition.

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm not disputing that. You mean to tell me that the African American population has that high of a percentage of people that are "just thugs?"
    Wow

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Fundamental Attribution Error.
    When we make mistakes or do bad things it must be situational. I was late because traffic was bad. When others do these things it must be dispositional. He was late because he's lazy.

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    It's the economy, stupid.

    And to the race bait question: Black people don't commit more violent crimes per capital than white because they're "evil blacks", it's because they are statistically more poor than whites. It's mostly about the economy and poverty. "Cultural influences" are less of a factor, although they still exist. Look at any country in the world and the poor and the product of broken families who need mental help that fall into this ****, not certain races. Just as a black person robs another black in Chicago with a knife for 20$, a poor "trailer trash" wife beating white guy is cooking meth in a 2-liter bottle in his garage and stealing air conditioning units on the weekends, shotgun in tow. What's the common denominator: lack of education, lack of family unit, lack of stable childhood, and lack of wealth. I'm not saying it's any excuse for an individuals actions, but this is why the Constitutions upholds INDIVIDUAL rights and not COLLECTIVE rights. End poverty and most of this **** will go away (which no one, including the government, has figured out how to fix entirely).

    From a white guy with common sense,
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    Last edited by Jake8x7; 05-03-2012 at 03:35 PM.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Yeah, I can't wait 'till we all have an above average income. (sarcasm dripping)

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    Also, this is my reply to "it's too easy to get a gun"...

    You're completely right, but closing down gun stores or making them illegal wouldn't do a damn thing. People talk about how there are already ~300M LEGAL guns in the U.S...but what about guns like this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1wV3lmbSv4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Av0pEqR5KWs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiH_o...eature=related

    This gun was made in 15minutes and $7. What are they gonna do...ban bullets too? How many shotgun shells do you guys think are in circulation? At least a billion? So there are one billion+ potential guns...setting aside being able to make your own bullets as well. If you ban them, then the cartels and gangs will just start making their own guns and use the guns already in the street... empowering organized crime once again.

    Jake8x7
    Last edited by Jake8x7; 05-03-2012 at 05:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Yeah, I can't wait 'till we all have an above average income. (sarcasm dripping)
    I'm not ignorant enough to think it's realistically possible, especially with the government having any involvement in it, but it's true that poverty is the primary factor. Notice how culture is a function of its surroundings...black culture formed around being poor as hell and uneducated (regardless of whose fault this is why it is). I'm not advocating that we go around and give these people homes, but I'm sick and tired of the race baiting and finger pointing- by both sides.

    Jake8x7
    Last edited by Jake8x7; 05-03-2012 at 08:23 PM.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm not disputing that. You mean to tell me that the African American population has that high of a percentage of people that are "just thugs?"
    African American population?? We still have some "African Americanes" running around loose? I thought they had all been replaced by "blacks" and "African-Americans". We should catch those "African Americanes" and turn them in to the NAACP for re-designation! Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 05-04-2012 at 12:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I'm not disputing that. You mean to tell me that the African American population has that high of a percentage of people that are "just thugs?"
    Why do you find it necessary to bring up race? OC for Me didn't mention any race. Thugs come in all races, colors, religions, and ethnicities. A criminal is a criminal is a criminal.
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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Why do you find it necessary to bring up race? OC for Me didn't mention any race. Thugs come in all races, colors, religions, and ethnicities. A criminal is a criminal is a criminal.
    For future reference, notice how he left out the LGBT community. Proven un-citable fact, We don't commit crimes, and therefore, do not have thugs. /Notsarcasm.

    (If she can bring up race, I can bring up sexuality, just so this thread can be Fair, and Equal to all parties involved, or otherwise.)
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 05-04-2012 at 02:39 AM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    For future reference, notice how he left out the LGBT community. Proven un-citable fact, We don't commit crimes, and therefore, do not have thugs. /Notsarcasm.

    (If she can bring up race, I can bring up sexuality, just so this thread can be Fair, and Equal to all parties involved, or otherwise.)
    Considering the use of 'he', you refer to me, or a typo, referring to she.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Considering the use of 'he', you refer to me, or a typo, referring to she.
    The "She" part was referring to Beretta92FSLady~
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    The "She" part was referring to Beretta92FSLady~
    I figured that out.

    OC for ME
    Originally Posted by DrakeZ07

    For future reference, notice how he left out the LGBT community. Proven un-citable fact, We don't commit crimes, and therefore, do not have thugs. /Notsarcasm.

    (If she can bring up race, I can bring up sexuality, just so this thread can be Fair, and Equal to all parties involved, or otherwise.)



    Considering the use of 'he', you refer to me, or a typo, referring to she.
    ?....me or her?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    For future reference, notice how he left out the LGBT community. Proven un-citable fact, We don't commit crimes, and therefore, do not have thugs. /Notsarcasm.

    (If she can bring up race, I can bring up sexuality, just so this thread can be Fair, and Equal to all parties involved, or otherwise.)
    Believe it or not, the LGBT community is not at the forefront of everybody's mind, and therefore not constantly in our thoughts. Most folks wouldn't have noticed the absence of any reference to LGBT until you brought it up (Ruby didn't mention Martians, natural phenomena or other species, either). And now you're claiming that no member of the alternative community has ever committed a criminal or thuggish act? Welcome to the planet Earth, where there is no identifiable sub-culture or social community without some criminals! Pax...
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