Richie Farmer Violated Gun Laws As Agriculture Commissioner

Liberty4Ever · Apr 30, 2012

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57424325/audit-blisters-former-ky-agriculture-commissioner

The audit describes an over-the-top culture of elitist abuse and self appointed privilege. We had already heard about the disappearing refrigerators and laptop PCs and high end big screen TVs. Now we're hearing some new abuses, including some gun related issues.

Farmer spent $96,000 on a conference that was to have about 200 attendees, including some fairly lavish gifts such as mall shopping cards, cigar boxes, watches, rifles, and rifle cases. Farmer took most of those redneck shopping spree gifts home after the conference, including 13 rifles! Transferring a new rifle requires a federal BATFE form 4473 to verify that the recipient can legally own the firearm. It's uncertain how the firearms were transferred and whether the federal paperwork was completed as required. Farmer has since returned seven of the 13 rifles. Were some of these rifles somehow purchased by the state and taken by Farmer, or were they transferred to Farmer and immediately given to friends and relatives? Either way, those would seem to be straw purchases, at best, and of course theft of tax dollars for personal use.

Farmer had a state employee drive him, in his state provided SUV, to go hunting. Farmer shot a deer from the vehicle, which is illegal in Kentucky.

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/150-00/360.PDF

Farmer had the employee field dress the deer for him while the employee was on the clock.

Of course, the article also describes a lot of wrongdoing that's unrelated to guns or gun laws.

Yet another case of YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WASTE.

I do feel very good about our new ag commissioner, Jamie Comer. He's stuck trying to fix this mess, lift morale, and return credibility to the Kentucky Department of Agriculture.

ManInBlack · Apr 30, 2012

Liberty4Ever said:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57424325/audit-blisters-former-ky-agriculture-commissioner

The audit describes an over-the-top culture of elitist abuse and self appointed privilege. We had already heard about the disappearing refrigerators and laptop PCs and high end big screen TVs. Now we're hearing some new abuses, including some gun related issues.

Farmer spent $96,000 on a conference that was to have about 200 attendees, including some fairly lavish gifts such as mall shopping cards, cigar boxes, watches, rifles, and rifle cases. Farmer took most of those redneck shopping spree gifts home after the conference, including 13 rifles! Transferring a new rifle requires a federal BATFE form 4473 to verify that the recipient can legally own the firearm.

OK, all of the above is basically true based on your link and preexisting knowledge. I am student of government abuse and this stuff interests me. You make a number of other specific allegations and I am just wondering if you had some links to back it up?

It's uncertain how the firearms were transferred and whether the federal paperwork was completed as required...Were some of these rifles somehow purchased by the state and taken by Farmer, or were they transferred to Farmer and immediately given to friends and relatives? Either way, those would seem to be straw purchases, at best, and of course theft of tax dollars for personal use.

Evidence?

Farmer had a state employee drive him, in his state provided SUV, to go hunting. Farmer shot a deer from the vehicle, which is illegal in Kentucky.

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/150-00/360.PDF

Evidence?

Farmer had the employee field dress the deer for him while the employee was on the clock.

Evidence?

Of course, the article also describes a lot of wrongdoing that's unrelated to guns or gun laws.

Yet another case of YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WASTE.

On this I agree; I wonder how much government money gets wasted that we never even hear about. Maybe I don't even want to know. :uhoh:

I do feel very good about our new ag commissioner, Jamie Comer. He's stuck trying to fix this mess, lift morale, and return credibility to the Kentucky Department of Agriculture.

Is this a paid campaign spot?

Liberty4Ever · Apr 30, 2012

ManInBlack said:
I am just wondering if you had some links to back it up?

If it doesn't have a question mark, I'm repeating info stated in the linked CBS article, reporting the results of the audit.

If it has a question mark, I'm asking a reasonable question based on the info in the linked CBS article. It says Farmer took home 13 rifles bought with state money and returned seven when he was caught. It doesn't describe anything about how those firearms were transferred. There are applicable federal laws that we must all obey. Stealing rifles bought with tax dollars is substantially different than stealing laptop PCs or dorm refrigerators. There's no mandatory federal paperwork and NICS with PCs or fridges. I'd like to know how the rifles were transferred. Were federal laws broken? I'm not jumping to any conclusions, but it's difficult to imagine how the state would purchase the rifles and Farmer would end up with them. Did he fill out 13 of the 4473 forms and have a local FFL transfer them to him? Is there some sort of law enforcement exemption if the state of Kentucky buys the firearms for its use? If so, did Farmer abuse that by having the state make a straw purchase for him or his relatives or friends? It seems at least possible that Farmer's friends and relatives received the six rifles that haven't been returned, based on how Farmer gave away other state goodies to his friends and family according to the audit.

ManInBlack said:
Is this a paid campaign spot?

Don't need a campaign spot. Jamie Comer already won the election by the widest landslide margin of any race in last year's election and it'll be another three years before he's running for anything.

garyh9900 · May 1, 2012

Here is the link to the actual report from the auditors office.

http://apps.auditor.ky.gov/Public/Audit_Reports/Archive/2012KYDeptofAgricultureexamination.pdf

ManInBlack · May 1, 2012

Liberty4Ever said:
It says Farmer took home 13 rifles bought with state money and returned seven when he was caught. It doesn't describe anything about how those firearms were transferred. There are applicable federal laws that we must all obey.

Your thread title is "Richie Farmer Violated Gun Laws As Agriculture Commissioner." Basically, you are admitting that you have no evidence that he broke any firearms laws. Sounds like you made an allegation with no substantiation...be careful of libel laws.

Were federal laws broken? I'm not jumping to any conclusions

Yeah, you pretty much did. Read your thread title.

Liberty4Ever · May 1, 2012

ManInBlack said:
Your thread title is "Richie Farmer Violated Gun Laws As Agriculture Commissioner." Basically, you are admitting that you have no evidence that he broke any firearms laws. Sounds like you made an allegation with no substantiation...be careful of libel laws.

Yeah, you pretty much did. Read your thread title.

I ASKED if federal gun laws were violated. The initial information from the audit doesn't seem to reveal enough to know that, but definitely hints at that possibility, but I am NOT jumping to conclusions about any violations of federal gun laws. It's worth asking the question, though.

The thread title states that Richie Farmer violated gun laws, and he did. That's not in question. He violated a state law (see my link to the law in the original post) prohibiting anyone from shooting a deer from a vehicle.

Liberty4Ever said:
Farmer had a state employee drive him, in his state provided SUV, to go hunting. Farmer shot a deer from the vehicle, which is illegal in Kentucky.

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/150-00/360.PDF

ManInBlack · May 1, 2012

Liberty4Ever said:
The thread title states that Richie Farmer violated gun laws, and he did. That's not in question. He violated a state law (see my link to the law in the original post) prohibiting anyone from shooting a deer from a vehicle.

That's not a gun law; it's a game law. It's also illegal to shoot a deer from a vehicle with a bow.

Besides, that would have only been one law, not the "LAWS" that you allege were broken in your thread title.

You know what you did. I don't care about Richie Farmer either way, but I would encourage you to think more carefully before you make allegations that you have no proof of and only a news byte to provide you any information at all.

langzaiguy · May 1, 2012

While there may not be sufficient evidence yet to convict Farmer for a gun crime, IMHO enough suspicion and evidence has been raised to make an allegation or inference.

Sure, Farmer is innocent until proven guilty, but there it's nothing wrong with looking at the facts and forming your opinion as they come out.

I appreciate Liberty posting this article. Your entitled to form your opinion if you don't like his.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

KYGlockster · May 1, 2012

If the rifles were new, how could he have obtained them from anyone other than an FFL? Unless he purchased them directly from the manufacturer, and I'm fairly certain none are stupid enough to do such a thing. Anyone know how he came across the new rifles? If he purchased them from an individual who does not have an FFL, then no paper work is required. Although I don't see a private transfer of 13 fairly new rifles happening.

Liberty4Ever · May 1, 2012

I saw a video of the seven returned rifles. The video panned by too quickly, and from too far away, so I was unable to determine the manufacturer of the rifles. They all seemed to have black polymer stocks and stainless barrels. They looked like all-weather hunting rifles. Some had scopes, but they were probably added by the eventual owner.

The whole thing seems suspicious to me, considering how firearms are treated so differently by governments, with all of the regulations and paperwork.

I wondered if maybe the state has some firearms procurement process that we don't hear about that side steps the entire 4473 process. After all, if the state buys a bunch of weapons for the state police, or the fish & game department, those weapons aren't being sold to an individual and the NICS background check and 4473 gun registration (that supposedly isn't a gun registration) doesn't really apply. However, these rifles were supposedly purchased as conference giveaways. Gee, the trade show conferences I attended gave away T-shirts, tape measures, and imported flashlights. I should go to government conferences. That GSA conference sounded pretty sweet! Anyway, if the rifles were intended for private owners, whether that was conference attendees or Farmer & Friends, using any hypothetical state firearms procurement procedure that sidesteps the NICS and 4473 would be inappropriate and it should be illegal.

I've been involved with firearms raffles at liberty events. You can make $1000 raffling off a Henry Golden Boy .22! In those cases, the firearm was paid for with proceeds from the raffle, and is later transferred at an FFL, just like an online gun purchase. If the 13 new rifles were purchased by the state and transferred to Farmer in this manner, did Richie Farmer really go to a gun dealer and pencil whip 13 of the 4473 forms and walk out with 13 rifles, with the gun dealer knowing that the Commonwealth of Kentucky paid for them? Really?!?

I guess the problem is, I'm not good at thinking like a weasel career politician... thank goodness!

I keep thinking about these 13 rifles, and I keep coming up with more questions than answers.

I still think it's a great irony that the rifles were all engraved with the Kentucky Department of Agriculture "Kentucky Proud" logo and/or motto.

In the most innocent of all possibilities I can imagine, maybe Richie Farmer decided that it'd be great to give away huntin' rifles, so the department bought them, had them custom engraved, and then Farmer learned that the out-of-state conference attendees were prohibited by ethics laws from accepting such valuable gifts. I can see how Richie might not have considered the ethics issues. That's apparently not his strong suit. The rifles are engraved, so he couldn't return them, and they would be an embarrassing reminder that he really shouldn't be managing anything more complex that the office supplies in his desk drawer... but I still don't have a good transition from that problem to "I'll just take them home with me."

garyh9900 · May 1, 2012

Liberty4Ever said:
I saw a video of the seven returned rifles. The video panned by too quickly, and from too far away, so I was unable to determine the manufacturer of the rifles. They all seemed to have black polymer stocks and stainless barrels. They looked like all-weather hunting rifles. Some had scopes, but they were probably added by the eventual owner.

The whole thing seems suspicious to me, considering how firearms are treated so differently by governments, with all of the regulations and paperwork.

I wondered if maybe the state has some firearms procurement process that we don't hear about that side steps the entire 4473 process. After all, if the state buys a bunch of weapons for the state police, or the fish & game department, those weapons aren't being sold to an individual and the NICS background check and 4473 gun registration (that supposedly isn't a gun registration) doesn't really apply. However, these rifles were supposedly purchased as conference giveaways. Gee, the trade show conferences I attended gave away T-shirts, tape measures, and imported flashlights. I should go to government conferences. That GSA conference sounded pretty sweet! Anyway, if the rifles were intended for private owners, whether that was conference attendees or Farmer & Friends, using any hypothetical state firearms procurement procedure that sidesteps the NICS and 4473 would be inappropriate and it should be illegal.

I've been involved with firearms raffles at liberty events. You can make $1000 raffling off a Henry Golden Boy .22! In those cases, the firearm was paid for with proceeds from the raffle, and is later transferred at an FFL, just like an online gun purchase. If the 13 new rifles were purchased by the state and transferred to Farmer in this manner, did Richie Farmer really go to a gun dealer and pencil whip 13 of the 4473 forms and walk out with 13 rifles, with the gun dealer knowing that the Commonwealth of Kentucky paid for them? Really?!?

I guess the problem is, I'm not good at thinking like a weasel career politician... thank goodness!

I keep thinking about these 13 rifles, and I keep coming up with more questions than answers.

I still think it's a great irony that the rifles were all engraved with the Kentucky Department of Agriculture "Kentucky Proud" logo and/or motto.

In the most innocent of all possibilities I can imagine, maybe Richie Farmer decided that it'd be great to give away huntin' rifles, so the department bought them, had them custom engraved, and then Farmer learned that the out-of-state conference attendees were prohibited by ethics laws from accepting such valuable gifts. I can see how Richie might not have considered the ethics issues. That's apparently not his strong suit. The rifles are engraved, so he couldn't return them, and they would be an embarrassing reminder that he really shouldn't be managing anything more complex that the office supplies in his desk drawer... but I still don't have a good transition from that problem to "I'll just take them home with me."

If you read through the audit, you will find a lot of answers to your questions. They ordered 25 rifles, Remington 770 in a few different calibers, they all came with scopes. The FFL who made the sale traveled to the conference to do the 4473's for the commissioners. The rifles where intended for the 17 commissioners in the SASDA organization, I guess only 12 of them showed up. According to the audit, Farmer later went to the FFL and transferred all the remaining rifles to himself.

The audit has pictures, 4473's, ect. to view.

09jisaac · May 2, 2012

I wonder how often acts like this happen with our tax money. I care that Farmer took 13 rifles. I also care that he gave away another 12 bought with OUR money. I think my tax dollars should go to bettering US. Not bettering solely government employees.

I am not saying that state workers shouldn't get a raise/bonus, I am talking only about waste, like this party.

garyh9900 · May 2, 2012

The rifles are just the tip of the iceberg.

Liberty4Ever · May 2, 2012

garyh9900 said:
If you read through the audit, you will find a lot of answers to your questions. They ordered 25 rifles, Remington 770 in a few different calibers, they all came with scopes. The FFL who made the sale traveled to the conference to do the 4473's for the commissioners. The rifles where intended for the 17 commissioners in the SASDA organization, I guess only 12 of them showed up. According to the audit, Farmer later went to the FFL and transferred all the remaining rifles to himself.

The audit has pictures, 4473's, ect. to view.

I'm embarrassed that I hadn't gotten around to reading through the 187 page audit, yet was speculating online when many details were in the audit.

I still haven't read the entire audit, but I've read a significant portion of it, and I must say that the impact is actually much worse than the brief highlights presented in the summaries in various articles. When all of these abuses of power are read in consecutive order, there is a cumulative effect. The details paint a picture that makes it clear that there were not a few isolated incidences with lapses in judgment. There was a persistent pattern of entitlement and malfeasance. Farmer seemed to believe that he was special and was above the law, and the world should bend to provide anything he wants, just because he's so awesome that he deserves it.

The 4473 forms showed 13 Remington 770 rifles in a variety of popular hunting calibers transferred to Richie Farmer on 6-4-08, and there were good pictures of the seven rifles that he returned, including a closeup of the Kentucky Proud logo engraved into the receiver. The text describes 25 rifles purchased even though only 16 would have been needed for the officials from other states who were attending the 2008 SASDA conference. The rifles cost $11,225 and the rifle cases cost $2,124. Including $250 to have an FFL attend the event and transfer the rifles to the recipients, Kentucky taxpayers spent $13,599 on the rifles. One of the .300 magnum rifles was specifically ordered to be engraved "#32", which was Richie Farmer's jersey number when he played basketball at UK.

A maximum of 16 rifles were needed as gifts if all commissioners attended, and Farmer ordered 25 rifles in varying hunting calibers. Only 12 commissioners attended the event, each received a rifle, and Farmer kept the other 13, which he later picked up at the gun store and completed the 4473 forms to transfer them into his name. That can't be an accident. Richie Farmer knew the state had paid for these 13 rifles, scopes and cases. There is federal paperwork proving that Farmer deliberately took possession of them. His signature is on the transfer forms. He couldn't order a state employee to steal firearms for him by proxy. He's since returned 6 rifles on January 17th, 2012, leaving 7 rifles still missing and unaccounted.

Farmer also spent $4,678 on Case knives. 17 of them were engraved "SASDA" and were distributed at the conference. The other 35 knives were engraved "Compliments of Richie Farmer" and were delivered to Richie Farmer's house.

There is a very long string of similar abuses with the Kentucky taxpayer buying stuff that Farmer wanted, and the theft from Kentuckians was clearly premeditated. There is at least $53,000 of state employee salary that could be directly traced to personal errands and work for Richie Farmer, and probably a lot more that can't be directly accounted years afterward.

If you voted for the basketball player and you think you might do something like that again, I urge you to please read as much of the actual audit as you can tolerate before the bile starts backing up in your throat. If this doesn't offend you, then you are one of the few sociopaths who has what it takes to be a weasel career politician.

garyh9900 · May 2, 2012

Liberty4Ever said:
I'm embarrassed that I hadn't gotten around to reading through the 187 page audit, yet was speculating online when many details were in the audit.

I still haven't read the entire audit, but I've read a significant portion of it, and I must say that the impact is actually much worse than the brief highlights presented in the summaries in various articles. When all of these abuses of power are read in consecutive order, there is a cumulative effect. The details paint a picture that makes it clear that there were not a few isolated incidences with lapses in judgment. There was a persistent pattern of entitlement and malfeasance. Farmer seemed to believe that he was special and was above the law, and the world should bend to provide anything he wants, just because he's so awesome that he deserves it.

The 4473 forms showed 13 Remington 770 rifles in a variety of popular hunting calibers transferred to Richie Farmer on 6-4-08, and there were good pictures of the seven rifles that he returned, including a closeup of the Kentucky Proud logo engraved into the receiver. The text describes 25 rifles purchased even though only 16 would have been needed for the officials from other states who were attending the 2008 SASDA conference. The rifles cost $11,225 and the rifle cases cost $2,124. Including $250 to have an FFL attend the event and transfer the rifles to the recipients, Kentucky taxpayers spent $13,599 on the rifles. One of the .300 magnum rifles was specifically ordered to be engraved "#32", which was Richie Farmer's jersey number when he played basketball at UK.

A maximum of 16 rifles were needed as gifts if all commissioners attended, and Farmer ordered 25 rifles in varying hunting calibers. Only 12 commissioners attended the event, each received a rifle, and Farmer kept the other 13, which he later picked up at the gun store and completed the 4473 forms to transfer them into his name. That can't be an accident. Richie Farmer knew the state had paid for these 13 rifles, scopes and cases. There is federal paperwork proving that Farmer deliberately took possession of them. His signature is on the transfer forms. He couldn't order a state employee to steal firearms for him by proxy. He's since returned 6 rifles on January 17th, 2012, leaving 7 rifles still missing and unaccounted.

Farmer also spent $4,678 on Case knives. 17 of them were engraved "SASDA" and were distributed at the conference. The other 35 knives were engraved "Compliments of Richie Farmer" and were delivered to Richie Farmer's house.

There is a very long string of similar abuses with the Kentucky taxpayer buying stuff that Farmer wanted, and the theft from Kentuckians was clearly premeditated. There is at least $53,000 of state employee salary that could be directly traced to personal errands and work for Richie Farmer, and probably a lot more that can't be directly accounted years afterward.

If you voted for the basketball player and you think you might do something like that again, I urge you to please read as much of the actual audit as you can tolerate before the bile starts backing up in your throat. If this doesn't offend you, then you are one of the few sociopaths who has what it takes to be a weasel career politician.

I can say I have never voted for Richie Farmer. An old coworker of mine once told me what Richie had been caught doing, and how is was swept under the rug because of his UK Basketball history. That was just after he announced he was running for Ag Commissioner for the first time. From that day forward, I've had nothing for Richie.

Another issue with the audit, is the FFL transferring the rifles. An FFL can only transfer firearms at 2 locations, the licensed premise and a recognized gun show, any place other than that is a violation of atf laws and regulations. I'd be interested in finding out who the FFL was.

Liberty4Ever · May 2, 2012

garyh9900 said:
Another issue with the audit, is the FFL transferring the rifles. An FFL can only transfer firearms at 2 locations, the licensed premise and a recognized gun show, any place other than that is a violation of atf laws and regulations. I'd be interested in finding out who the FFL was.

I didn't know that FFLs were restricted to transferring firearms at their normal place of business and gun shows only. Interesting.

The FFL's information was deliberately whited out on the 4473 forms, and the audit intentionally didn't reveal that info. They probably cut a deal, or at least a gentleman's agreement, not to prosecute the FFL, although that violation would fall under the federal domain.

There I go speculating again. :-(

Similarly, Farmer's ex-wife admitted to a lot of wrong doing throughout the audit. The email excerpts between Farmer and his ex-wife concerning the return of the fridge that she had was particularly enlightening. There was the typical animosity consistent with fussing with an ex-spouse, but toward the end of the exchange, Farmer asked her if she was suffering from amnesia, which I interpreted as him accusing her of trying to pretend she didn't know where the fridge came from when she knew perfectly well that it was purchased with publlic funds for their private use. I assume the state cut her some sort of immunity or leniency deal to get her cooperation. She confirmed that Farmer had the rifles in his gun safe at home. She also admitted participating in the scam where they did their Christmas shopping by having Ag Department personnel make Kentucky Proud gift baskets for them to give as Christmas presents to their friends and family, in no official capacity. You know, it's better to give than receive, but having the tax payer buy the gifts you're giving is the best!

In a strict sense, those rifles were stolen by Richie Farmer. Receiving stolen firearms, regardless of their value, is a class D felony.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/514-00/110.PDF

There would be seven counts, one for each rifle.

However, Farmer didn't merely receive stolen firearms. He stole those rifles. In the case of a firearm, that's also a class D felony.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/514-00/030.pdf

And there are seven counts of this class D felony.

It'll be interesting to see if this white collar crime by an elected official and perpetrated on every Kentucky taxpayer is treated less severely under the law than it would be if a blue collar criminal stole seven rifles.

Hopefully, the state will auction the recovered firearms. I'm not much of a collector, but I'd pay twice the retail price for one of these collectible rifles with a very interesting story. I'd hate to guess how much Richie Farmer's #32 engraved .300 magnum rifle would fetch at an auction. It could be a lot of money, but it won't come close to paying for all of the stolen tax dollars. It won't pay for the three month investigation by the auditor's office, either. This is definitely a losing proposition for Kentucky taxpayers. The biggest upside is the education we receive that will hopefully result in better voting by us and more ethical behavior by our elected officials.

garyh9900 · May 2, 2012

Liberty4Ever said:
Hopefully, the state will auction the recovered firearms. I'm not much of a collector, but I'd pay twice the retail price for one of these collectible rifles with a very interesting story. I'd hate to guess how much Richie Farmer's #32 engraved .300 magnum rifle would fetch at an auction. It could be a lot of money, but it won't come close to paying for all of the stolen tax dollars. It won't pay for the three month investigation by the auditor's office, either. This is definitely a losing proposition for Kentucky taxpayers. The biggest upside is the education we receive that will hopefully result in better voting by us and more ethical behavior by our elected officials.

Strangely, that rifle is still one of the missing ones..... I'm sure Richie never saw it before...

I've already made inquiries into purchasing one or all of the rifles. Generally speaking, firearms are disposed of through the KSP Auction, which you have to be an FFL to purchase from. But I'm thinking they will find someway to get a bigger auction out of these...

BTW I'm an FFL, and it's very clear about where you can complete a transfer at.

Liberty4Ever · May 2, 2012

The disposition of firearms by the state is not just some arbitrary bureaucratic policy. It's strictly codified in Kentucky state law. I remember seeing different laws pertaining to the disposition of firearms from gun buy-back programs, surplus police firearms, etc.

But you're right. The people who make the laws are often not very good at following their own laws... but for you and me, ignorance of the thousands of laws is no excuse.

Richie Farmer Violated Gun Laws As Agriculture Commissioner

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