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Thread: Non CPL OC in National Parks in Michigan

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    Non CPL OC in National Parks in Michigan

    I plan to camp (for probably up to a week) on South Manitou Island this summer which is a part of Leelanau County and the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. I was wondering about the legalities of open carrying on a National Park with no CPL, I know that MCL 324.504 covers state parks or rather any property under the control for the DNR and it states:

    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department..

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rfl...me=mcl-324-504

    I googled around and havent found anything that makes me 100% positive I can in a Federal park so I thought I would ask so I can be sure before I make the trip since someone on here I'm sure will know an answer or where I can find it.

    Thanks in advance guys.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

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    http://worldexaminer.com/2010/02/27/...ational-parks/

    • Under the new law, every park is subject to all the firearms laws of the state (or states) where the park is located.
    • Park visitors must know and obey state laws, including knowing which state laws apply in parks (such as Yellowstone) that cross state boundaries. (For information on state laws, go to www.nraila.org/gunlaws.)
    • The new law affects firearms possession, not use. Laws regarding hunting, poaching, target shooting or any unlawful discharge remain unchanged.
    • It will remain unlawful to carry in certain locations, under a separate law that prohibits possession of any firearm in a "federal facility."
    Read also:

    http://www.nraila.org/legislation/fe...priations.aspx

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I once CC'd at the dunes -- until I took my outer shirt off, then I was "Virginia tuck".

    Then again, I haz CPL
    Last edited by TheQ; 05-01-2012 at 01:59 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    (6) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department..
    28.422

    Since 28.422 is the law that spells out the License to Purchase/Possess/Transport and MI's registration scheme and it falls within the range of laws in the cite my personal opinion would be that you'd be legal. However, Venator has had several discussions with at least one DNR officer who disagreed. I know V was working on getting him to understand but I don't know if he succeeded.

    Bronson
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    I was thinking about printing off a copy of 324.504 and 28.422 just in case I get hassled I could have the information right there with me.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

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    Good policy in general.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    28.422

    Since 28.422 is the law that spells out the License to Purchase/Possess/Transport and MI's registration scheme and it falls within the range of laws in the cite my personal opinion would be that you'd be legal. However, Venator has had several discussions with at least one DNR officer who disagreed. I know V was working on getting him to understand but I don't know if he succeeded.

    Bronson
    IMO, it will take a Michigan Attorney General Opinion on MCL 28.422 as being the "Michigan Open Carry Law" before Lawyers, Police, Citizens, etc to refer to it as such. It SEEMS very Self-Explanatory to me...
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upl...arks2-2010.pdf

    Don't pay much attention to the DNR regs. The DNR doesn't have control over federal land, thus MCL 324.504 doesn't apply there. MCL 324.504 was put in place to stop the DNR from restricting CPL holders where they (DNR) DOES have jurisdiction. Again, the DNR has no jurisdiction to control NPS property (the wildlife they might, such as fishing regs).
    Rand Paul 2016

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    " For national security reasons, guns cannot be carried into federal facilities within national parks. Notice of this rule will be clearly displayed outside all federal facilities. If you are unsure if a park building is a federal facility, look for a sign or ask a park ranger."

    National Security reasons?? That's a stretch.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    " For national security reasons, guns cannot be carried into federal facilities within national parks. Notice of this rule will be clearly displayed outside all federal facilities. If you are unsure if a park building is a federal facility, look for a sign or ask a park ranger."

    National Security reasons?? That's a stretch.
    I've heard such buildings could include restrooms...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I've heard such buildings could include restrooms...
    IIRC, what I have heard as well...
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    I thought those were allowed due to the fact that .gov personnel dont occupy them.

    The only threat to National security in the bathrooms is the explosions of toxic gasses in there, chemical warfare old school.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 05-02-2012 at 03:49 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Federal Employees/Workers "work" in them

    Ex: cleaning duty.
    Last edited by TheQ; 05-02-2012 at 04:02 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  14. #14
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    Thought I read an exemption somewhere on MGO forever ago.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    That's a great citation. I'll use it myself.

    "According to Stainless' memory -- there was a Forum posting on MGO where someone said"

    HEARSAY!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    That's a great citation. I'll use it myself.

    "According to Stainless' memory -- there was a Forum posting on MGO where someone said"

    HEARSAY!
    You win Post of the Day.

    That should be a sticky and every day we pick a winner.

  17. #17
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    Hey... I was hoping to spark someones "Oh Yeah!" circuit, and see if they knew where a cite was.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I've heard such buildings could include restrooms...
    Restrooms are not included in the federal restriction. I should find a cite but I am a million messages behind on catching up on the OC forums.

    I will state that Stainless1911 was right.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
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  19. #19
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    Na na...

    lol Just kidding.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Standalone restrooms are OK... as only buildings that are permanently staffed are off limits.

    Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Standalone restrooms are OK... as only buildings that are permanently staffed are off limits.

    Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
    So the bathrooms staffed with the dude handing out mints and towels are off limits then?

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    Only if he's actually working there.

  23. #23
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    So the bathrooms staffed with the dude handing out mints and towels are off limits then?
    What park have you been to? most of the time they are just above nasty .... not staffed
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  24. #24
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    " For national security reasons, guns cannot be carried into federal facilities within national parks. Notice of this rule will be clearly displayed outside all federal facilities. If you are unsure if a park building is a federal facility, look for a sign or ask a park ranger."

    National Security reasons?? That's a stretch.
    This rings a little too much like Nixon trying to protect his tape recordings. I think the phrase "national security" is just a go to justification, much as calling everything you disagree with "communism" was/is.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    ...Soooo, would I be legal under 324.504 and 28.422?


    lol.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

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