scot623
Regular Member
So the bathrooms staffed with the dude handing out mints and towels are off limits then?
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Non CPL OC in National Parks in Michigan
- Thread starter Yance
- Start date
So the bathrooms staffed with the dude handing out mints and towels are off limits then?
stainless1911
Banned
Only if he's actually working there.
autosurgeon
Regular Member
So the bathrooms staffed with the dude handing out mints and towels are off limits then?
What park have you been to? :lol: most of the time they are just above nasty .... not staffed
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
This rings a little too much like Nixon trying to protect his tape recordings. I think the phrase "national security" is just a go to justification, much as calling everything you disagree with "communism" was/is.
Yance
Regular Member
...Soooo, would I be legal under 324.504 and 28.422?
lol.
lol.
NHCGRPR45
Regular Member
Well the way some of those rest-rooms look they may have never seen a staff member. Or at least not that season.
So what is the verdict? Legal/not Legal? Or questionable?
I vote LEGAL!
Last edited:
stainless1911
Banned
Legal, but no one has a cite yet.
so, unofficially legal.
so, unofficially legal.
Last edited:
Yance
Regular Member
I'm not sure what Federal Parks law to look under, but if the land is under the control of the Michigan DNR it would appear as though the carry of a firearm by a non CPL holder would be legal. As 324.504 governs what the DNR can do with property under their control, with section (6) not allowing them to make any rules that interfere with possession of a firearm in accordance with MCL 28.421 to 28.423.
I emailed the DNR to see what they would say, I'm waiting to hear back.
Now the only question is getting the firearm to the island...the only access is by ferry, violation of MCL 750.227c? It appears it would be.
I emailed the DNR to see what they would say, I'm waiting to hear back.
Now the only question is getting the firearm to the island...the only access is by ferry, violation of MCL 750.227c? It appears it would be.
TheQ
Regular Member
So the bathrooms staffed with the dude handing out mints and towels are off limits then?
This is a federal park, not a strip club.
Yance
Regular Member
Just inadvertantly found my answer...
National Park Carry will go into effect February 22, 2010. That means if you have a permit/license that is legal in the state the National Park is located in you can carry in that National Park.
Title 36 Chpt. 1 Part 2 § 2.4 Weapons Traps and Nets.
(h) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, a person may possess,
carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area
in accordance with the laws of the state in which the national park area, or that portion there of, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable federal law.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf.
So with that, coupled with MCL 324.504 and 28.422 I'm confident in that I could open carry on the island with out having a CPL
National Park Carry will go into effect February 22, 2010. That means if you have a permit/license that is legal in the state the National Park is located in you can carry in that National Park.
Title 36 Chpt. 1 Part 2 § 2.4 Weapons Traps and Nets.
(h) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, a person may possess,
carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area
in accordance with the laws of the state in which the national park area, or that portion there of, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable federal law.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf.
So with that, coupled with MCL 324.504 and 28.422 I'm confident in that I could open carry on the island with out having a CPL
stainless1911
Banned
How do you get the gun on the island? Vehicle transport applies to boats as well.
Yance
Regular Member
Which is idiotic on its own...
I'll be camping with my CPL holding friends so I'll just have them hump it to and from the island for me.
PM incoming stainless.
I'll be camping with my CPL holding friends so I'll just have them hump it to and from the island for me.
PM incoming stainless.
Glock9mmOldStyle
Campaign Veteran
Cite please...just too sleepy to do the digging. Thanks in advance. I ask because camping season is upon us & I am sure the cite will help many in the future. Peace out.... you gotta fight for your right to carry!
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=/watch?v=eBShN8qT4lk&v=eBShN8qT4lk&gl=US
Sent from my Polaroid PMID701i using Tapatalk 2
Last edited:
stainless1911
Banned
750.227 and 750.231a
Onnie
Regular Member
Restrooms are not included in the federal restriction. I should find a cite but I am a million messages behind on catching up on the OC forums.
I will state that Stainless1911 was right. :banana:
When I was in VA at Manassas battlefield a few weeks ago and the only bathroom was in the visitor information center which clearly had a NO FIREARMS sign on the building
there was also a old house there that had old pictures of the house after the civil war, there was no sign on it. But there were no unattached bathrooms from the visitor center
in that case, it was clear the bathrooms were off limits
Last edited:
Yance
Regular Member
More specifically 750.227c because it covers a motorboat as well as any vehicle powered by mechanical means.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rk...g.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-227c
However it states .."a firearm except for a pistol which is loaded"...so does that mean you can only carry a pistol on a boat, or does it still prohibit a pistol?
Last edited:
griffin
Regular Member
Yeah, this thread assumes we are talking about detached bathrooms which most NPs have. We have already established you can't carry inside the visitor's center, so saying you were just going to the bathroom inside the visitor's center won't work.
stainless1911
Banned
They would fall back on 227.
SpringerXDacp
New member
That is the incorrect reading of the actual law. When you quoted the above part and removed the comma's, it changed the intent.
The correct reading is, "...a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded." The law and its intent is to exclude pistols. Hence, other than a pistol.
ETA: For long guns, 750.227d applies. There are exceptions for waterfowl hunting when a vessel is not under motion.
ETA2: Oops, meant 750.227c and not 750.227d.
Last edited:
Yance
Regular Member
Sec. 227c.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.
The only problem with reading that is from the part that says a person "shall not transport or possess...a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded"
Reading it in the whole context it would seem to make anything firearm that is not a pistol illegal.
And I say that because contextually the phrase "other than" typically excludes the item immediately following, in this case the pistol. A term that can be and is used in place of "other than" is "except for." So it could also be read as except for a pistol, meaning the pistol would be exempt from the statute.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.
The only problem with reading that is from the part that says a person "shall not transport or possess...a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded"
Reading it in the whole context it would seem to make anything firearm that is not a pistol illegal.
And I say that because contextually the phrase "other than" typically excludes the item immediately following, in this case the pistol. A term that can be and is used in place of "other than" is "except for." So it could also be read as except for a pistol, meaning the pistol would be exempt from the statute.
Last edited: