Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 56

Thread: forfit the right to OC if I have a CPL?

  1. #1
    Regular Member backenj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Muskegon,Mi
    Posts
    82

    forfit the right to OC if I have a CPL?

    I was at a local gun store in Muskegon and the lady told me that I forfit my right to OC because I have a CPL. What? Thats not true, right? Legal update 86 states that a valid CPL holder can OC (note: OC) in PFZ's. If I can OC in pistol free zones (she said thats not true either, if you dont believe me look up legal update 86) how do I forfit my right to OC. She is a highly trained gun person. How is it that she (and her husband) dont know any of this. Any info, comments?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Battle Creek, MI
    Posts
    578
    A lot of people are unfortunately VERY misinformed about this, you dont know how many times I have heard this myself from people who see me OC. The truth is a CPL gives you the ability to conceal but it does not require that you conceal. Early on even police officers were telling people that a CPL meant that a firearm HAD to be concealed, some probably still are, however that is not the case. You do not forfeit your ability to OC.

    What you read in MSP update #86 is correct, someone with a CPL can openly carry a firearm in the state of Michigan as well as in the pistol free zones as MCL 28.425o only concerns the carrying of a CONCEALED pistol.

    What I would do (since she suggested you look up MSP #86 from how you make it sound) is take a copy of MSP #86 into them so they can read it.


    What the case may be is they are VERY unknowledgable about the laws as we have them today and the understanding of them, or they are very anti open carry and are trying to push their agenda onto you so that you dont know any better.
    Last edited by Yance; 05-01-2012 at 06:05 PM.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post
    I was at a local gun store in Muskegon and the lady told me that I forfit my right to OC because I have a CPL. What? Thats not true, right? Legal update 86 states that a valid CPL holder can OC (note: OC) in PFZ's. If I can OC in pistol free zones (she said thats not true either, if you dont believe me look up legal update 86) how do I forfit my right to OC. She is a highly trained gun person. How is it that she (and her husband) dont know any of this. Any info, comments?


    Have you ever tried looking at the actual laws and seeing if there is an actual prohibition, or are you just going to take the word of random people for every important legal question in your life?

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...ame=mcl-28-422

    ETA: Alright, trying to be more helpful: the bottom line is that this is a common myth you will hear. Government employees (including those personnel who wear costume jewelry on their chests), gun store owners/employees, and concealed carry instructors are the three groups that seem to pass off the most bad info, and should never be consulted for legal advice. If you are going to carry a handgun, whether openly or concealed, you should really study the actual statutes carefully. Especially in a state like Michigan, there are many potential mistakes you could make that will cost you dearly. So, it's definitely worth the time you spend looking into. It may even be worth buying an hour of a lawyer's time if you are still unsure.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 05-01-2012 at 06:08 PM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  4. #4
    Regular Member backenj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Muskegon,Mi
    Posts
    82
    [QUOTE=ManInBlack;1746707]

    Have you ever tried looking at the actual laws and seeing if there is an actual prohibition, or are you just going to take the word of random people for every important legal question in your life?



    Try reading the post better D.S. She is a highly trained gun person. I guess I should have said the gun store owner. Make it simple for you. Not a random person.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    1,552

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post


    Have you ever tried looking at the actual laws and seeing if there is an actual prohibition, or are you just going to take the word of random people for every important legal question in your life?



    Try reading the post better D.S. She is a highly trained gun person. I guess I should have said the gun store owner. Make it simple for you. Not a random person.
    Oh yeah? Where did she get her law degree?

    That's what I thought. She is a random person when it comes to legal interpretation. But hey, if you want to listen to her (or anyone else) on legal matters because she's a "gun person," write me from jail.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 05-01-2012 at 06:24 PM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    her training and her credibility are obviously called into question if she is highly ignorant of the law.

    ETA: pretty amusing to see a 5 post newb call a 1000+ poster a chump
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 05-01-2012 at 06:47 PM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580
    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post
    I was at a local gun store in Muskegon and the lady told me that I forfit my right to OC because I have a CPL. What? Thats not true, right? Legal update 86 states that a valid CPL holder can OC (note: OC) in PFZ's. If I can OC in pistol free zones (she said thats not true either, if you dont believe me look up legal update 86) how do I forfit my right to OC. She is a highly trained gun person. How is it that she (and her husband) dont know any of this. Any info, comments?
    My comment is that she is full of ****.
    You are correct to question here 'information.' You don't give up OC when you get a CC permit.

    Now, as to your question, 'how is it that she and her husband don't know any of this?' Unless they are informed about the law in addition to being informed about guns, they are simply idiots.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580
    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    her training and her credibility are obviously called into question if she is highly ignorant of the law.

    ETA: pretty amusing to see a 5 post newb call a 1000+ poster a chump
    Well, I must say, he did hit the nail on the head........


    And, # of posts is meaningless as to cred. What is said is of much greater worth (or lack thereof).
    Last edited by wrightme; 05-01-2012 at 06:52 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  9. #9
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    When you get a CPL you lose your right to OC just like when you get a drivers license you lose your right to walk anywhere.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Nashville, Tennessee, United States
    Posts
    592
    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    When you get a CPL you lose your right to OC just like when you get a drivers license you lose your right to walk anywhere.
    Is that from USC 1D10T?

    Sent from my M865 using Tapatalk 2

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157
    Go back and bet her your carry gun for hers. If she can find proof in the actual laws you'll give her your gun, if she can't you get hers or her husbands.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Clinton Twp
    Posts
    257
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Go back and bet her your carry gun for hers. If she can find proof in the actual laws you'll give her your gun, if she can't you get hers or her husbands.

    Bronson
    Oooo, I like that idea

    Yes, print a copy of MSP #86 to take along (Read it yourself beforehand)

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

    fold it up in your pocket, OC into the store (assuming you have your CPL to drive there with it on your hip and they have no firearm restriction signs posted) then offer them the wager, once she accepts, show her the update and quietly smile as you receive a new firearm.
    "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal."

  13. #13
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Go back and bet her your carry gun for hers. If she can find proof in the actual laws you'll give her your gun, if she can't you get hers or her husbands.

    Bronson
    Nope... no need to let them off so easy...

    If she can't find any proof then you get both her gun and her husband's gun!
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    When you get a CPL you lose your right to OC just like when you get a drivers license you lose your right to walk anywhere.
    Dang it! That's MY Line! :P

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    1,552

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    --Moderator deleted--
    I, at least, gave him the link to the actual law, which is more than anyone else did. My kind of help keeps people from going to jail, or at least hopefully makes the smart ones pause before they go and do something illegal out of ignorance.

    When I first started carrying a gun, I realized immediately that it was a big enough deal that I should be 100% sure of the laws for myself. I don't have sympathy for someone who rolls through and posts a paragraph that it is obvious he took no time to compose, asking a question that it is obvious he spent zero time researching, and coming off with an attitude that doesn't bespeak a desire to learn.

    I actually have family and property in Michigan so, because I have to deal with incredibly stupid laws enacted by the representatives of the people of this good state, I will stick around.
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 05-01-2012 at 11:05 PM. Reason: You're not worth the time
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post
    --Moderator deleted--
    lol, he deserved that.

    As far as your "highly trained" gun store associate. Baaaahahahahaha, if she was, she would know better.

    Anyhow, I do hope you stick around.

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    MIB, you were being a jerk.

    WildChild is right. Thats the type of thing that scares off the new-b folks.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    MIB, you were being a jerk.

    WildChild is right. Thats the type of thing that scares off the new-b folks.
    I'd rather have him scared off, than have him sitting in jail because none of you told him to read the law or provided him a link to such.

    But hey, the good thing about the internet is that everyone is free to read or ignore, take or leave, anything and everything they see.

    ETA: If he's scared off by that, what will happen when he has his first LEO encounter, with zero knowledge of the laws???
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 05-01-2012 at 11:34 PM.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    I'd rather have him scared off, than have him sitting in jail because none of you told him to read the law or provided him a link to such.

    But hey, the good thing about the internet is that everyone is free to read or ignore, take or leave, anything and everything they see.

    Good point. There is that feature.

    I have been one of the most tolerant of your posts here, backing you on occasion, dont pull your crap with me cricket.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Coleman, Michigan
    Posts
    20
    There is no such thing as a stupid question
    the only thing stupid is a question that isn't asked

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurusRanger View Post
    There is no such thing as a stupid question
    the only thing stupid is a question that isn't asked
    Maybe.

    I would say there most definitely is such a thing as a lazy question.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  22. #22
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932
    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    I, at least, gave him the link to the actual law, ...
    Not until after you first called him lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post


    Have you ever tried looking at the actual laws and seeing if there is an actual prohibition, or are you just going to take the word of random people for every important legal question in your life?
    So then he called you a Dip **** and the thread really started to get good.

    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post

    Try reading the post better D.S. She is a highly trained gun person. I guess I should have said the gun store owner. Make it simple for you. Not a random person.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    He dindt know that he didnt know. All part of being a new-b. Thats different from being lazy.

    If you put as much effort into helping as you do whatever it is that you do here, maybe the nature of the discussions would change a bit.

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Is there something in the water, that's causing simple information exchanges to be peppered with insults and name calling? Whatever the cause, it needs to stop.

    Post responsibly - discuss facts.

    As to the OP, you have been shown the law, been given an accurate interpretation of it - the rest of it is up to you.

    The lady/instructor in question is in this case wrong. I would go so far as to report what you claim is being taught to the certifying authority if she does not acknowledge the error and change the way she is instructing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by backenj View Post
    I was at a local gun store in Muskegon and the lady told me that I forfit my right to OC because I have a CPL. What? Thats not true, right? Legal update 86 states that a valid CPL holder can OC (note: OC) in PFZ's. If I can OC in pistol free zones (she said thats not true either, if you dont believe me look up legal update 86) how do I forfit my right to OC. She is a highly trained gun person. How is it that she (and her husband) dont know any of this. Any info, comments?
    Maybe not so much? Its is or at least was a common miss-conception, it happens I have been told this same thing from many people when I started OC'ing, cops CPL instructors. I suppose it comes from the name of the license itself "Concealed Pistol License" or "Concealed Carry Weapon" as its more commonly known. Its goes to assuming that "concealed" is the operable word I guess.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •