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forfit the right to OC if I have a CPL?

backenj

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
82
Location
Muskegon,Mi
I was at a local gun store in Muskegon and the lady told me that I forfit my right to OC because I have a CPL. What? Thats not true, right? Legal update 86 states that a valid CPL holder can OC (note: OC) in PFZ's. If I can OC in pistol free zones (she said thats not true either, if you dont believe me look up legal update 86) how do I forfit my right to OC. She is a highly trained gun person. How is it that she (and her husband) dont know any of this. Any info, comments?
 

Yance

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
568
Location
Battle Creek, MI
A lot of people are unfortunately VERY misinformed about this, you dont know how many times I have heard this myself from people who see me OC. The truth is a CPL gives you the ability to conceal but it does not require that you conceal. Early on even police officers were telling people that a CPL meant that a firearm HAD to be concealed, some probably still are, however that is not the case. You do not forfeit your ability to OC.

What you read in MSP update #86 is correct, someone with a CPL can openly carry a firearm in the state of Michigan as well as in the pistol free zones as MCL 28.425o only concerns the carrying of a CONCEALED pistol.

What I would do (since she suggested you look up MSP #86 from how you make it sound) is take a copy of MSP #86 into them so they can read it.


What the case may be is they are VERY unknowledgable about the laws as we have them today and the understanding of them, or they are very anti open carry and are trying to push their agenda onto you so that you dont know any better.
 
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ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
I was at a local gun store in Muskegon and the lady told me that I forfit my right to OC because I have a CPL. What? Thats not true, right? Legal update 86 states that a valid CPL holder can OC (note: OC) in PFZ's. If I can OC in pistol free zones (she said thats not true either, if you dont believe me look up legal update 86) how do I forfit my right to OC. She is a highly trained gun person. How is it that she (and her husband) dont know any of this. Any info, comments?

:banghead:

Have you ever tried looking at the actual laws and seeing if there is an actual prohibition, or are you just going to take the word of random people for every important legal question in your life?

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kv...leg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-422

ETA: Alright, trying to be more helpful: the bottom line is that this is a common myth you will hear. Government employees (including those personnel who wear costume jewelry on their chests), gun store owners/employees, and concealed carry instructors are the three groups that seem to pass off the most bad info, and should never be consulted for legal advice. If you are going to carry a handgun, whether openly or concealed, you should really study the actual statutes carefully. Especially in a state like Michigan, there are many potential mistakes you could make that will cost you dearly. So, it's definitely worth the time you spend looking into. It may even be worth buying an hour of a lawyer's time if you are still unsure.
 
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backenj

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
82
Location
Muskegon,Mi
:banghead:

Have you ever tried looking at the actual laws and seeing if there is an actual prohibition, or are you just going to take the word of random people for every important legal question in your life?



Try reading the post better D.S. She is a highly trained gun person. I guess I should have said the gun store owner. Make it simple for you. Not a random person. :idea:
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
:banghead:

Have you ever tried looking at the actual laws and seeing if there is an actual prohibition, or are you just going to take the word of random people for every important legal question in your life?



Try reading the post better D.S. She is a highly trained gun person. I guess I should have said the gun store owner. Make it simple for you. Not a random person. :idea:

Oh yeah? Where did she get her law degree?

That's what I thought. She is a random person when it comes to legal interpretation. But hey, if you want to listen to her (or anyone else) on legal matters because she's a "gun person," write me from jail.
 
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smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
her training and her credibility are obviously called into question if she is highly ignorant of the law.

ETA: pretty amusing to see a 5 post newb call a 1000+ poster a chump
 
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wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
I was at a local gun store in Muskegon and the lady told me that I forfit my right to OC because I have a CPL. What? Thats not true, right? Legal update 86 states that a valid CPL holder can OC (note: OC) in PFZ's. If I can OC in pistol free zones (she said thats not true either, if you dont believe me look up legal update 86) how do I forfit my right to OC. She is a highly trained gun person. How is it that she (and her husband) dont know any of this. Any info, comments?

My comment is that she is full of ****.
You are correct to question here 'information.' You don't give up OC when you get a CC permit.

Now, as to your question, 'how is it that she and her husband don't know any of this?' Unless they are informed about the law in addition to being informed about guns, they are simply idiots.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
her training and her credibility are obviously called into question if she is highly ignorant of the law.

ETA: pretty amusing to see a 5 post newb call a 1000+ poster a chump

Well, I must say, he did hit the nail on the head........ :lol:


And, # of posts is meaningless as to cred. What is said is of much greater worth (or lack thereof).
 
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xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
When you get a CPL you lose your right to OC just like when you get a drivers license you lose your right to walk anywhere.
 

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
Go back and bet her your carry gun for hers. If she can find proof in the actual laws you'll give her your gun, if she can't you get hers or her husbands.

Bronson
 

Hevymetal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
261
Location
Clinton Twp
Go back and bet her your carry gun for hers. If she can find proof in the actual laws you'll give her your gun, if she can't you get hers or her husbands.

Bronson

Oooo, I like that idea :)

Yes, print a copy of MSP #86 to take along (Read it yourself beforehand)

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

fold it up in your pocket, OC into the store (assuming you have your CPL to drive there with it on your hip and they have no firearm restriction signs posted) then offer them the wager, once she accepts, show her the update and quietly smile as you receive a new firearm.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
Go back and bet her your carry gun for hers. If she can find proof in the actual laws you'll give her your gun, if she can't you get hers or her husbands.

Bronson
Nope... no need to let them off so easy...

If she can't find any proof then you get both her gun and her husband's gun!
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
--Moderator deleted--

I, at least, gave him the link to the actual law, which is more than anyone else did. My kind of help keeps people from going to jail, or at least hopefully makes the smart ones pause before they go and do something illegal out of ignorance.

When I first started carrying a gun, I realized immediately that it was a big enough deal that I should be 100% sure of the laws for myself. I don't have sympathy for someone who rolls through and posts a paragraph that it is obvious he took no time to compose, asking a question that it is obvious he spent zero time researching, and coming off with an attitude that doesn't bespeak a desire to learn.

I actually have family and property in Michigan so, because I have to deal with incredibly stupid laws enacted by the representatives of the people of this good state, I will stick around.
 
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ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
MIB, you were being a jerk.

WildChild is right. Thats the type of thing that scares off the new-b folks.

I'd rather have him scared off, than have him sitting in jail because none of you told him to read the law or provided him a link to such.

But hey, the good thing about the internet is that everyone is free to read or ignore, take or leave, anything and everything they see.

ETA: If he's scared off by that, what will happen when he has his first LEO encounter, with zero knowledge of the laws???
 
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stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I'd rather have him scared off, than have him sitting in jail because none of you told him to read the law or provided him a link to such.

But hey, the good thing about the internet is that everyone is free to read or ignore, take or leave, anything and everything they see.


Good point. There is that feature.

I have been one of the most tolerant of your posts here, backing you on occasion, dont pull your crap with me cricket.
 
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