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Thread: so what if your ocing in seattle?

  1. #1
    Activist Member bwboley's Avatar
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    so what if your ocing in seattle?

    Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn says he's making an emergency declaration allowing police to confiscate items that can be used as weapons

    http://www.kptv.com/story/18015229/s...llowing-mayhem

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    maginn specifically said "firearms" as the chief was speaking, and the chief parroted it. Is this not a "poor mans martial law"?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    I can't find that video. Do you have a link?
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    maginn specifically said "firearms" as the chief was speaking, and the chief parroted it. Is this not a "poor mans martial law"?
    It's illegal..

    Plain and simple.

    They don't have the authority to bypass the state constitution.

    There is already a LAW, a FEDERAL LAW, that prevents this...

    Seattle risks losing ALL its federal funding (and multiple lawsuits) if they start confiscating firearms of lawful owners.

    SEC. 557. Title VII of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5201) is amended by adding at the end the following:

    ‘‘SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES.
    ‘‘(a) PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS.—
    No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), or person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, or receiving Federal funds, or under control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may—
    ‘‘(1) temporarily or permanently seize, or authorize seizure of, any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal, State, or local law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with Federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation;
    ‘‘(2) require registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal, State, or local law;
    ‘‘(3) prohibit possession of any firearm, or promulgate any rule, regulation, or order prohibiting possession of any firearm, in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law; or
    ‘‘(4) prohibit the carrying of firearms by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal, State, or local law, solely because such person is operating under the direction, control, or supervision of a Federal agency in support of relief from the major disaster or emergency.
    ‘‘(b) LIMITATION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit any person in subsection (a) from requiring the temporary surrender of a firearm as a condition for entry into any mode of transportation used for rescue or evacuation during a major disaster or emergency, provided that such temporarily surrendered firearm is returned at the completion of such rescue or evacuation.
    ‘‘(c) PRIVATE RIGHTS OF ACTION.—
    ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Any individual aggrieved by a violation of this section may seek relief in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress against any person who subjects such individual, or causes such individual to be subjected, to the deprivation of any of the rights, privileges, or immunities secured by this section.
    ‘‘(2) REMEDIES.—In addition to any existing remedy in law or equity, under any law, an individual aggrieved by the seizure or confiscation of a firearm in violation of this section may bring an action for return of such firearm in the United States district court in the district in which that individual resides or in which such firearm may be found.
    ‘‘(3) ATTORNEY FEES.—In any action or proceeding to enforce this section, the court shall award the prevailing party, other than the United States, a reasonable attorney’s fee as part of the costs.’’.

    They may claim they're exempt since it's not a 'real' emergency, but that just opens them up even more.... If it's not a 'real' emergency, then why confiscate firearms?
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Again I'm asking for the link becase I have read multiple articles and cannot find any mention of firearms. The post from MSG Laigaie is the first mention I've seen of firearms.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    Again I'm asking for the link becase I have read multiple articles and cannot find any mention of firearms. The post from MSG Laigaie is the first mention I've seen of firearms.
    The order can be found here: http://www.seattle.gov/mayor/media/P...nfiscation.pdf
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    ...and this is why we all need to work to amend our preemption laws to include personal criminal penalties for the "authorities" who violate them.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    ...and this is why we all need to work to amend our preemption laws to include personal criminal penalties for the "authorities" who violate them.
    Washington has a horrible record of prosecuting cops who break laws.....even if we amended this it will end up ignored like all the other laws they break.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Washington has a horrible record of prosecuting cops who break laws.....even if we amended this it will end up ignored like all the other laws they break.
    It really makes one wonder, "What's an honest man to do?"
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Don't you just love how our past mayor and now this one just do as they please without checking with someone, like maybe the state AG, to see if what they want to do is even legal?!? They don't check because they don't care; they know that most of the people who would protest against it probably don't have the money to sue them over it.

    And I NEVER go to Seattle unarmed. Because of my work, I cc most of the time and I try to stay the hell OUT of Seattle.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    It really makes one wonder, "What's an honest man to do?"
    Keep towing the line. These neocons and neolibs who have destroyed the meaning of rule of law will eventually fall to natural law, and that is that oppressive, over burdensome, corrupt regimes all fail eventually.

    I know MIB doesn't feel this way but to those reading who do, rule of law does not apply to free citizens, but is to ensure our "rulers" are restricted by law not the other way around.

    Also this is what Madison's quote about, "nation of laws not of men" refers too. Again not that we are ruled by laws but our government is supposed to be.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    I still see no mention of firearms. It mentions mostly objects for blunt force but does not specifically say firearms. I am looking for the link that specifically says firearms. I see they left a loophole for themselves by saying "to include" but there is nothing about firearms. The way it was posted earlier made this seem to be a spoken act.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    I still see no mention of firearms. It mentions mostly objects for blunt force but does not specifically say firearms. I am looking for the link that specifically says firearms. I see they left a loophole for themselves by saying "to include" but there is nothing about firearms. The way it was posted earlier made this seem to be a spoken act.
    Considering that the order says "weapons" or similar objects, makes no exception for firearms, and specifically makes an exception for lawful weapons in homes and businesses, I'd say firearms are pretty much included. I guess we'll find out when/if a lawful carrier has his rights raped by McGinn's Militsiya.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  14. #14
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Considering that the order says "weapons" or similar objects, makes no exception for firearms, and specifically makes an exception for lawful weapons in homes and businesses, I'd say firearms are pretty much included. I guess we'll find out when/if a lawful carrier has his rights raped by McGinn's Militsiya.
    I understand this. I said they left a loophole for themselves.
    I am referring to the 2nd post made by MSG Laigaie. He said,
    "maginn specifically said "firearms" as the chief was speaking, and the chief parroted it. Is this not a 'poor mans martial law'?"

    I am looking for the link that shows McGinn said firearms.
    I am not arguing with any of you as to his true intent. It is obvious what his intent was because we all know his history with breaking the law specifically where firearms are concerned.
    I just want to hear it for myself.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Here is a 'Mayoral Proclamation' given today which he calls out authority given to him by RCW 38.52 (only governor) and SMC 10.02 (have not looked at).

    http://seattle.gov/mayor/media/PDF/1...nfiscation.pdf
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 05-01-2012 at 10:15 PM.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    The Washington State Legislature provided in the RCW's for the Governor to restrict firearms outside the home or business upon declaring an emergency though likely not constitutional as it violates our Washington State Constitution Article 1 SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

    Cities Towns and Municipalities are still restricted from doing so under State Preemption.

    RCW 43.06.220
    State of emergency — Powers of governor pursuant to proclamation.
    (1) The governor after proclaiming a state of emergency and prior to terminating such, may, in the area described by the proclamation issue an order prohibiting:
    (a) Any person being on the public streets, or in the public parks, or at any other public place during the hours declared by the governor to be a period of curfew;
    (b) Any number of persons, as designated by the governor, from assembling or gathering on the public streets, parks, or other open areas of this state, either public or private;
    (c) The manufacture, transfer, use, possession or transportation of a molotov cocktail or any other device, instrument or object designed to explode or produce uncontained combustion;
    (d) The transporting, possessing or using of gasoline, kerosene, or combustible, flammable, or explosive liquids or materials in a glass or uncapped container of any kind except in connection with the normal operation of motor vehicles, normal home use or legitimate commercial use;
    (e) The possession of firearms or any other deadly weapon by a person (other than a law enforcement officer) in a place other than that person's place of residence or business;
    (f) The sale, purchase or dispensing of alcoholic beverages;
    (g) The sale, purchase or dispensing of other commodities or goods, as he or she reasonably believes should be prohibited to help preserve and maintain life, health, property or the public peace;
    (h) The use of certain streets, highways or public ways by the public; and
    (i) Such other activities as he or she reasonably believes should be prohibited to help preserve and maintain life, health, property or the public peace.
    (2) The governor after proclaiming a state of emergency and prior to terminating such may, in the area described by the proclamation, issue an order or orders concerning waiver or suspension of statutory obligations or limitations in any or all of the following areas as further specified and limited by chapter 181, Laws of 2008:
    (a) Liability for participation in interlocal agreements;
    (b) Inspection fees owed to the department of labor and industries;
    (c) Application of the family emergency assistance program;
    (d) Regulations, tariffs, and notice requirements under the jurisdiction of the utilities and transportation commission;
    (e) Application of tax due dates and penalties relating to collection of taxes; and
    (f) Permits for industrial, business, or medical uses of alcohol.
    (3) In imposing the restrictions provided for by RCW 43.06.010, and 43.06.200 through 43.06.270, the governor may impose them for such times, upon such conditions, with such exceptions and in such areas of this state he or she from time to time deems necessary.
    (4) Any person willfully violating any provision of an order issued by the governor under this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
    [2008 c 181 § 1; 2003 c 53 § 222; 1969 ex.s. c 186 § 3.]
    Last edited by BigDave; 05-01-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    Here is a 'Mayoral Proclamation' given today which he calls out authority given to him by RCW 38.52 (only governor) and SMC 10.02 (have not looked at).

    http://seattle.gov/mayor/media/PDF/1...nfiscation.pdf
    LOL!!!

    It must be nice for him to live in a total fantasy land. Any SMC that violates preemption is void (and he should know this). If an exception is not contained within the RCWs (like for the governor) it doesn't exist (and he should know this!!!).

    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    SMC 10.02.020 Authority of Mayor to issue certain
    orders.

    Upon the proclamation of a civil emergency by the Mayor, and during the
    existence of such civil emergency, the Mayor may, in a form that meets the
    requirements of Section 10.02.025, make and proclaim any or all of the
    following orders:

    I. An order prohibiting the carrying or possession of a firearm or any
    instrument which is capable of producing bodily harm and which is carried or
    possessed with intent to use the same to cause such harm, provided that any
    such order shall not apply to peace officers or military personnel engaged
    in the performance of their official duties;

    SMC 10.02.025 Civil rights protected.

    An order pursuant to Section 10.02.020 shall contain the following:


    A. A statement of the facts upon which the order is based; and


    B. A statement that the Mayor believes it is in the best interest of public
    safety, rescue and recovery efforts and the protection of property that the
    exercise of certain rights be temporarily limited; and


    C. A statement that the conditions of the order are designed to provide the
    least necessary restriction on those rights.


    I'm not arguing it or defending it. I'm just posting it so people can see.
    What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

    I believe in freedom, Mr. Lipwig. Not many people do, although they will, of course, protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.

    The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail. - Going Postal, Terry Pratchett

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    hmm SMC 10.02, section I seems to be a violation of preemption 9.41.300 as well as the Federal law put in place after Katrina. It could be applicable if the Governor chose to delegate the power during a declared state emergency under RCW 38.52. Of course unless someone gets harmed by the illegal proclamation, no one gets standing to sue for it.

    RCW: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300 and http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=38.52
    SMC: http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scrip...e1.htm&r=1&f=G
    Last edited by Vitaeus; 05-01-2012 at 10:29 PM. Reason: added cited links

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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi View Post
    SMC 10.02.020 Authority of Mayor to issue certain
    orders.

    Upon the proclamation of a civil emergency by the Mayor, and during the
    existence of such civil emergency, the Mayor may, in a form that meets the
    requirements of Section 10.02.025, make and proclaim any or all of the
    following orders:

    I. An order prohibiting the carrying or possession of a firearm or any
    instrument which is capable of producing bodily harm and which is carried or
    possessed with intent to use the same to cause such harm, provided that any
    such order shall not apply to peace officers or military personnel engaged
    in the performance of their official duties;
    Interesting. It seems like the mayor would have a hard time proving intent to cause harm in a law abiding carrier with a properly holstered firearm.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Interesting. It seems like the mayor would have a hard time proving intent to cause harm in a law abiding carrier with a properly holstered firearm.
    To be honest, I don't carry a firearm for decoration. I fully intend to do bodily harm with it if the situation warrants, i.e. self defense.
    What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

    I believe in freedom, Mr. Lipwig. Not many people do, although they will, of course, protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.

    The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail. - Going Postal, Terry Pratchett

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi View Post
    To be honest, I don't carry a firearm for decoration. I fully intend to do bodily harm with it if the situation warrants, i.e. self defense.
    Mine is used as a means of expressing my disgust against gun laws. I don't plan on hurting anyone with it, it's protected speech.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    Mine is used as a means of expressing my disgust against gun laws. I don't plan on hurting anyone with it, it's protected speech.
    That is also a legitimate reason to carry in my view. If I carried to make a political statement I'd probably have a gun like yours. It's my opinion that LACs should have the right to have and carry any firearm they desire. Heck get yourself a 105mm if you like; just don't use my house for target practice.

    With too many people I know having been hurt by BGs and my own near miss, my gun is purely a practical means of fending off threats.
    What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

    I believe in freedom, Mr. Lipwig. Not many people do, although they will, of course, protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.

    The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail. - Going Postal, Terry Pratchett

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Someone please find us the video saying that firearms are targeted. This is critically important.

  25. #25
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
    Someone please find us the video saying that firearms are targeted. This is critically important.
    It's in his confiscation order... 'Any weapon'.......

    http://www.seattle.gov/mayor/media/P...nfiscation.pdf

    ^^^ NOT the proclamation, the actual order.
    Last edited by TechnoWeenie; 05-01-2012 at 11:28 PM.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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