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Why Florida prosecutor Angela Corey NEEDS TO BE DISBARRED:

thaJack

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Only if the defense was not a result of them putting themselves into a position where it's required, which is what is in question in this case.

Not entirely accurate. If you did put yourself in that position (i.e. you're part of the problem), you may still use deadly force to defend your life, but you have a duty to "retreat to the wall" first.

If Zimmerman had exhausted all of his efforts to retreat, then he could still use deadly force.
 

thaJack

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By the way... we've all seen by now the picture of the back of Zimmerman's bloody head. Has anyone stopped to ponder why the prosecutor would have been the one to introduce evidence that is exculpatory in nature?
 

wrightme

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By the way... we've all seen by now the picture of the back of Zimmerman's bloody head. Has anyone stopped to ponder why the prosecutor would have been the one to introduce evidence that is exculpatory in nature?

Yes.


The prosecutor presented a charge that isn't supported by the evidence, making a conviction very unlikely, but showing that 'we are doing our job', appeasing the mob mentality. And, by making the case un-winnable, appeasing the other side and allowing Zimmerman to eventually be acquitted of all charges. It is a political and strategical move to keep the peace, and keep the job.
 

rushcreek2

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My better judgement keeps telling me to stay out of this back & forth - but..........

PROVOKE - (Funk & Wagnall)

1 To stir to anger or resentment; irritate; vex.

2 To arouse or stimulate to some action.

3 To stir up or bring about

4 To induce or cause; elicit

Generally "provocative" behavior/conduct is defined by the cultural norms/perceptions of "others" - not the "provoker"

Zimmerman's course of action (conduct) was comprised of observation, a well-intended -although mistaken- need for surveillance that necessitated the following of Martin initially by vehicle which logically and reasonably could have provoked a defensive emotional response from Martin. There is at least one witness reporting 2 people running past their field of vision - apparently Zimmerman pursuing Martin.

Zimmerman's continuing to follow Martin on foot, and eventually running after him understandably led Martin to become increasingly anxious, angry, agitated, and prepared for a potential physical confrontation requiring an aggressive response.

Here in the nut-shell rests the State's argument: that Zimmerman's conduct provoked the ensuing confrontation that actually began when Martin back tracked, verbally challenged Zimmerman for following/pursuing him - when he (Martin) had presumably done nothing to warrant such action.

Evidence that I am aware of thus far leads ME to presume, and conclude that Martin was stirred to anger, and resentment by Zimmerman's foregoing conduct PRIOR TO to confrontation, and altercation. Martin confronted Zimmerman, verbally challenged him, struck Zimmerman in the head with his fist breaking his nose, and knocking him to the ground. Martin then , pursuant to engaging Z in a physical altercation, commenced to further inflict injuries upon Z by forcing his head into the concrete sidewalk

The question before the jury should be : Did Zimmerman deserve an ass kicking for engaging in his prior conduct of following and ultimately pursuing Martin ? If Martin was the one charged with physically assaulting Zimmerman that night , and nothing more had occurred, I believe the charges would have been eventually dismissed. or Martin would be acquitted= any reasonable jury would find that Zimmerman's actions provoked Martin and that Martin was therefore justifed in his actions.

I have a hunch that this will be the road map for the trial- in effect the State of Florida will endeavor to persuade the 12 members of the jury that Martin's death was avoidable, preventable, and most importantly PRECIPITATED by Zimmerman's conduct that night. In modern parlance - Zimmerman's BAD.
Problem is - that doesn't = 2nd degree murder.

This incident was a mistake gone terribly bad. Unfortunately Martin cannot recover from the consequences of the mistake, and that created an element of inequity in the mistake equation.
 
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ManInBlack

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The question before the jury should be : Did Zimmerman deserve an ass kicking for engaging in his prior conduct of following and ultimately pursuing Martin ? If Martin was the one charged with physically assaulting Zimmerman that night , and nothing more had occurred, I believe the charges would have been eventually dismissed. or Martin would be acquitted= any reasonable jury would find that Zimmerman's actions provoked Martin and that Martin was therefore justifed in his actions.

No...juries do not exist to determine if street justice, which had already been meted out, was "deserved" by one or another party. Juries exist to determine if a law was broken. An ass kicking is not a legal reaction to someone following you, which is not a crime.
 
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wrightme

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My better judgement keeps telling me to stay out of this back & forth - but..........

Evidence that I am aware of thus far leads ME to presume, and conclude that Martin was stirred to anger, and resentment by Zimmerman's foregoing conduct PRIOR TO to confrontation, and altercation. Martin confronted Zimmerman, verbally challenged him, struck Zimmerman in the head with his fist breaking his nose, and knocking him to the ground. Martin then , pursuant to engaging Z in a physical altercation, commenced to further inflict injuries upon Z by forcing his head into the concrete sidewalk
This sounds like a reasonable description of what happened, based upon the bits presented.
rushcreek2 said:
The question before the jury should be : Did Zimmerman deserve an ass kicking for engaging in his prior conduct of following and ultimately pursuing Martin ? If Martin was the one charged with physically assaulting Zimmerman that night , and nothing more had occurred, I believe the charges would have been eventually dismissed. or Martin would be acquitted= any reasonable jury would find that Zimmerman's actions provoked Martin and that Martin was therefore justifed in his actions.
NOTHING justifies such alleged action by Martin. The ONLY justification for such action by Martin would be in defense of self, not in an attack upon another person, whether being provoked or not. That 'justification' only resides in the mindset of an unreasonable person, and not in that of a reasonable person as described to juries.

So, no, Martin would NOT likely be acquitted in your example. He should be charged and convicted of assault.
rushcreek2 said:
I have a hunch that this will be the road map for the trial- in effect the State of Florida will endeavor to persuade the 12 members of the jury that Martin's death was avoidable, preventable, and most importantly PRECIPITATED by Zimmerman's conduct that night. In modern parlance - Zimmerman's BAD.
Problem is - that doesn't = 2nd degree murder.

This incident was a mistake gone terribly bad. Unfortunately Martin cannot recover from the consequences of the mistake, and that created an element of inequity in the mistake equation.
IF that is the road map for the trial, then Zimmerman has already won; though it will be at great cost to find out.
 

wrightme

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No...juries do not exist to determine if street justice, which had already been meted out, was "deserved" by one or another party. Juries exist to determine if a law was broken. An ass kicking is not a legal reaction to someone following you, which is not a crime.
Exactly.
 

rushcreek2

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Thanks for the critique. I shouldn't have used the term "reasonable jury". Whether or not there is such a thing as a "reasonably jury" is a topic for another discussion.

Agreed that no one deserves an A/K for actions taken by Zimmerman, BUT ... I refer you back to the term "reasonable jury".
 

wrightme

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Thanks for the critique. I shouldn't have used the term "reasonable jury". Whether or not there is such a thing as a "reasonably jury" is a topic for another discussion.

Agreed that no one deserves an A/K for actions taken by Zimmerman, BUT ... I refer you back to the term "reasonable jury".

NO jury should acquit Martin of assault in the description of events you presented. "Street justice" like you describe is an alternate term for A&B, and it doesn't matter if someone is screaming racial epithets in their face. What matters is who broke the law.
 

ManInBlack

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Thanks for the critique. I shouldn't have used the term "reasonable jury". Whether or not there is such a thing as a "reasonably jury" is a topic for another discussion.

Agreed that no one deserves an A/K for actions taken by Zimmerman, BUT ... I refer you back to the term "reasonable jury".

Again, who deserved what is not a question for the jury. Their only role is to decide whether or not the defendant broke the law in question, and, in cases dealing with an unjust law, the validity of the law itself.
 

FallonJeeper

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If Martin were afraid for his life, he should have called the police, not his girl friend. I don't think his girlfriend called the police either.

In any other case, they would look at the actions of both parties. And generally find that being angry or frightened does not constitute assualt/battery on another person. Exchanged words unless they include the threat of personal injury, and the ability to act on the threat, also does not constitute assault. Take this exchange to just seconds before the alleged attack/shooting. Had the police been there, would either have been arrested for what they were doing? No!

Zimmerman was justifiably following a suspected intruder in his community. Martin was walking and avoiding Zimmerman. Zimmerman and Martin would have explained their presence and the police would have sent them both home.

But something happened at the root of this scenario when somebody attacked somebody. Zimmerman claims he was attacked, and shot Martin in self defense, Martin's family and their supporters claim that Martin was attacked, then shot.

As I said, when you find out what happened in those brief seconds when the assault/shooting occured and who broke what law, you'll have your answer. I believe the rest of the story is irrelevent.

Also stand your ground is the law in Florida. Whether the public disagrees, whether they decide to change the law, it is the law now, and was the law at the time of the shooting. As such it's a legal defense.

I really feel as many of you do, that charging Zimmerman and bringing this case to trial has been and will be a show for the public. However, I also feel, that if Zimmerman is found not guilty, by a show of the eveidence, that the public will still not be happy and riots will happen.
 
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Tawnos

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That isn't the case. Otherwise, we would be siding with "Zimmerman's guilty," which is what the 'court of public opinion' has already decided. My opinion is quite at odds with the opinion predominant in the press. My opinion is that the evidence so far presented does not refute Zimmerman's claim, nor does it 'cast doubt' upon it. Future evidence may be released that does, but so far, no.
Saying "there should be no trial" is saying "Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is good enough that no trial is needed, regardless of evidence presented. Saying "Zimmerman is guilty" is doing the same on the other side. It's only in "the facts aren't clearly known to us, and should be sorted out in court" view that you approach neutrality.

So, if your previous quote was from the head prosecutor, where is that quote cited?
I already linked, you go RTFA.
 

thaJack

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The prosecutor presented a charge that isn't supported by the evidence, making a conviction very unlikely, but showing that 'we are doing our job', appeasing the mob mentality.

If that is the case, not only is it highly unethical, but she is bordering on prosecutorial misconduct.
 
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wrightme

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Saying "there should be no trial" is saying "Zimmerman's claim of self-defense is good enough that no trial is needed, regardless of evidence presented. Saying "Zimmerman is guilty" is doing the same on the other side. It's only in "the facts aren't clearly known to us, and should be sorted out in court" view that you approach neutrality.
You misrepresent my position. It is based upon evidence, not regardless of evidence presented.



Tawnos said:
I already linked, you go RTFA.
I did. As mentioned, it doesn't support the title you picked out of your searching. Either there is something to support your position, or there isn't. I didn't find anything that supports your position. If YOU did, maybe you can point out what I missed?
 

rushcreek2

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Rephrasing my term : "Reasonably MINDED jury" .

What is going on a given juror's MIND - now that is the real issue in a trial - not the facts.

The recesses of juror's MIND is where the "law and the facts" often get obscured.

I would vote to acquit - based upon what I've heard thus far.


The trial is going to be more about the personal character, and history of the defendant, and the alleged victim. This is where the MINDS of the jurors will decide on the "facts", and arrive at a verdict - or NOT.
 
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Tawnos

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You misrepresent my position. It is based upon evidence, not regardless of evidence presented.




I did. As mentioned, it doesn't support the title you picked out of your searching. Either there is something to support your position, or there isn't. I didn't find anything that supports your position. If YOU did, maybe you can point out what I missed?

I quote myself quoting somebody else. Paragraphs 5 and 6. Hurr.

"the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: ‘We’re through with our investigation and here it is for you.

A capias is a request for charges to be filed."


I'm assuming the cops are doing their jobs.
 

wrightme

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I quote myself quoting somebody else. Paragraphs 5 and 6. Hurr.

So, you have nothing? Okay.

I assume you are speaking of the affidavit prepared by the lead investigator. The actual wording was 'unconvinced about Zimmerman's version of events.'
Fair-use excerpt:
Chris Serino, the lead detective on the case, meanwhile told ABC News on Tuesday that he filed an affidavit on the night of the shooting stating that he was unconvinced about Zimmerman's version of events.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-arrest-warrant-against-George-Zimmerman.html


I assume that does not point to 'evidence that refutes or casts doubt upon. I assume that, because if they DID have such evidence, the wording would have mentioned it, if the police, as you assume, were 'doing their jobs.'
 
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