Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Youngest IPSC shooter at 6

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,322

    Youngest IPSC shooter at 6

    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    330
    Wow!

  3. #3
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    How cute!
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  4. #4
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Nice form. Likely better than most cops.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    104
    See, we do it for the children. Can we turn that back on them like this?

  6. #6
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    I blame the parents. If it wasn't for them (probably) this kid would not already know how to safely handle a firearm. Now firearms aren't something of curiosity to him, he is probably content just leaving the firearm lay because he knows that practice will be soon. If he knows and strictly follows all firearm safety rules then he will never have an accidental discharge endangering him or anyone else. This is how you keep kids safe with firearms, most everything else is a crutch.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    I blame the parents.
    BLAME?? I think the word you were looking for is "credit"... however, I personally believe the parents moved too far, too fast with this pint-sized Paladin. As were others, I was impressed with the little guy's skill, but I was somewhat surprised that IPSC would even sanction someone that young in competition. However, the IPSC Classification System simply states "Junior - Competitors who are under the age of 21 on the first day of the match", and he was definitely under the age of 21... and just slightly over the age of birth. Yes, he should know all the "safety rules" of firearms. Yes, he should be familiar with firearms he may see just laying around his home. Yes, he should know that guns are capable of inflicting injury and/or death (if he even understands the concept of "death" at his age). However, I have some doubts that he should have been given a loaded pistol without direct hands-on supervision. He may be the coolest kid in the world, and the Annie Oakley of toddlers, but when "the fat lady sings", he is still a child - with a child's very limited world-view, and a child's yet-developing mind and emotions. (The acronym "IPSC" (International Practical Shooting Confederation) makes me wonder, "What the hell is 'practical' about a race gun?" Are they ethnically restricted [don't get excited Stanley or BL, it's the other kind of "race"] )? And the only "practical" part is that you practically have to take out a second mortgage on your home to afford one. If one was to OC a race gun they'd probably be approached and FI'd by a Space Patrol Officer. ("Race guns" should be in a separate sanctioning organization, something like The International Sci-Fi/Zombie Apocalypse Confederation, aka: TISZAC... competing with folks using "Light Sabers" and "Photon Weapons".)

    Single shot, .22cal long guns, pointed downrange are fine for a 6-year old with immediate (as in "slightly in the background" supervision). But (IMHO), the handling and discharging of relatively high-powered handguns should wait until the age of about 10 years (no, I didn't reach up my butt for that age. Ten years is generally considered in law, psychology and medicine to be "the age of reasoning"), and then only with direct (as in "within arms reach", in case quick corrective action is needed) supervision for at least the first year. (Y'all have fun with this little bit of heresy!) Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 05-03-2012 at 01:17 PM.
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    BLAME?? I think the word you were looking for is "credit"... however, I personally believe the parents moved too far, too fast with this pint-sized Paladin. As were others, I was impressed with the little guy's skill, but I was somewhat surprised that IPSC would even sanction someone that young in competition. However, the IPSC Classification System simply states "Junior - Competitors who are under the age of 21 on the first day of the match", and he was definitely under the age of 21... and just slightly over the age of birth. Yes, he should know all the "safety rules" of firearms. Yes, he should be familiar with firearms he may see just laying around his home. Yes, he should know that guns are capable of inflicting injury and/or death (if he even understands the concept of "death" at his age). However, I have some doubts that he should have been given a loaded pistol without direct hands-on supervision. He may be the coolest kid in the world, and the Annie Oakley of toddlers, but when "the fat lady sings", he is still a child - with a child's very limited world-view, and a child's yet-developing mind and emotions. (The acronym "IPSC" (International Practical Shooting Confederation) makes me wonder, "What the hell is 'practical' about a race gun?" Are they ethnically restricted [don't get excited Stanley or BL, it's the other kind of "race"] )? And the only "practical" part is that you practically have to take out a second mortgage on your home to afford one. If one was to OC a race gun they'd probably be approached and FI'd by a Space Patrol Officer. ("Race guns" should be in a separate sanctioning organization, something like The International Sci-Fi/Zombie Apocalypse Confederation, aka: TISZAC... competing with folks using "Light Sabers" and "Photon Weapons".)

    Single shot, .22cal long guns, pointed downrange are fine for a 6-year old with immediate (as in "slightly in the background" supervision). But (IMHO), the handling and discharging of relatively high-powered handguns should wait until the age of about 10 years (no, I didn't reach up my butt for that age. Ten years is generally considered in law, psychology and medicine to be "the age of reasoning"), and then only with direct (as in "within arms reach", in case quick corrective action is needed) supervision for at least the first year. (Y'all have fun with this little bit of heresy!) Pax...
    Where do you get the racegun from? Looks like a standard handgun.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  9. #9
    Regular Member Garystarcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Canton
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    BLAME?? I think the word you were looking for is "credit"... however, I personally believe the parents moved too far, too fast with this pint-sized Paladin. As were others, I was impressed with the little guy's skill, but I was somewhat surprised that IPSC would even sanction someone that young in competition. However, the IPSC Classification System simply states "Junior - Competitors who are under the age of 21 on the first day of the match", and he was definitely under the age of 21... and just slightly over the age of birth. Yes, he should know all the "safety rules" of firearms. Yes, he should be familiar with firearms he may see just laying around his home. Yes, he should know that guns are capable of inflicting injury and/or death (if he even understands the concept of "death" at his age). However, I have some doubts that he should have been given a loaded pistol without direct hands-on supervision. He may be the coolest kid in the world, and the Annie Oakley of toddlers, but when "the fat lady sings", he is still a child - with a child's very limited world-view, and a child's yet-developing mind and emotions. (The acronym "IPSC" (International Practical Shooting Confederation) makes me wonder, "What the hell is 'practical' about a race gun?" Are they ethnically restricted [don't get excited Stanley or BL, it's the other kind of "race"] )? And the only "practical" part is that you practically have to take out a second mortgage on your home to afford one. If one was to OC a race gun they'd probably be approached and FI'd by a Space Patrol Officer. ("Race guns" should be in a separate sanctioning organization, something like The International Sci-Fi/Zombie Apocalypse Confederation, aka: TISZAC... competing with folks using "Light Sabers" and "Photon Weapons".)

    Single shot, .22cal long guns, pointed downrange are fine for a 6-year old with immediate (as in "slightly in the background" supervision). But (IMHO), the handling and discharging of relatively high-powered handguns should wait until the age of about 10 years (no, I didn't reach up my butt for that age. Ten years is generally considered in law, psychology and medicine to be "the age of reasoning"), and then only with direct (as in "within arms reach", in case quick corrective action is needed) supervision for at least the first year. (Y'all have fun with this little bit of heresy!) Pax...
    Do you have kids? I have a 2 year old and she knows parts of a gun and not to touch a gun. She also has a very good understanding on death (I hunt). I will always have her around guns to understand the safety in handling a gun.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Where do you get the racegun from? Looks like a standard handgun.
    I didn't accuse the kid of using a race gun. The child's gun appears to be a factory-standard pistol (no telling what's been done to the innards). Race guns just popped into my mind because they are permitted in the "Unlimited Class" of IPSC competitions. My personal POV is that if a handgun isn't practical to carry on your belt, it isn't "practical", and to allow it in an International Practical Shooting Confederation event is ludicrous. Why not allow the M60 machine gun, the M79 grenade launcher... or, better yet - in the "Unlimited" class - the M72LAWS rocket? Or, why not change the name of the sanctioning body to just International Shooting Confederation - "Bring Whatcha Got, Shoot Whatcha Brung"? Pax...
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Garystarcher View Post
    Do you have kids? I have a 2 year old and she knows parts of a gun and not to touch a gun. She also has a very good understanding on death (I hunt). I will always have her around guns to understand the safety in handling a gun.
    Yes, I have kids, but they're all probably older than you. As for your 2 year old knowing firearms nomenclature, and "having a very good understanding on death"... if you say so, I'll accept that as your claim (I'm not going to argue the point - that would be ridiculous). Kudos to you for your unique pre-school educational accomplishments! Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 05-03-2012 at 06:22 PM.
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Northern Nevada, ,
    Posts
    721
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    [B][SIZE=2][COLOR="#FF0000"]However, I have some doubts that he should have been given a loaded pistol without direct hands-on supervision.
    He is being supervised by a range officer within arm's reach and an assistant range officer. It seems he has already had a lot of hands-on supervision to reach his level of safety and skill.

    (The acronym "IPSC" (International Practical Shooting Confederation) makes me wonder, "What the hell is 'practical' about a race gun?" Are they ethnically restricted [don't get excited Stanley or BL, it's the other kind of "race"] )? And the only "practical" part is that you practically have to take out a second mortgage on your home to afford one. If one was to OC a race gun they'd probably be approached and FI'd by a Space Patrol Officer. ("Race guns" should be in a separate sanctioning organization, something like The International Sci-Fi/Zombie Apocalypse Confederation, aka: TISZAC... competing with folks using "Light Sabers" and "Photon Weapons".)
    I sometimes carry this expensive race gun:



    I sometimes race this less expensive carry gun:



    By using them in competition, that makes them both race guns. In the unlikely event somebody should try to kill me while I am carrying either the molded/stamped race gun or the milled/fitted gun, I will rely on the skills learned in the sport of practical shooting, which used to be called combat shooting. They can rename it again to appease people like you and it wouldn't change the fact it involves drawing from the holster, moving, and engaging multiple targets accurately with full-power ammunition.

  13. #13
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Blame- to place responsibility to
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    I was teaching my kid to shoot since he was 5. He's much older now but still cannot shoot as well as me ... with somethings, youth does not matter !

    Its up to the parents.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Blame- to place responsibility to
    Maybe they don't have dictionaries in your neck of the woods. Check Webster's...
    blame: transitive verb
    1: to find fault with : censure
    The FIRST definition is the most common use of a word in the American English language. Pax...
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  16. #16
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Maybe they don't have dictionaries in your neck of the woods. Check Webster's...
    blame: transitive verb
    1: to find fault with : censure
    The FIRST definition is the most common use of a word in the American English language. Pax...
    Dictionary.com
    1.to hold responsible; find fault with; censure: I don't blame you for leaving him.
    2.to place the responsibility for (a fault, error, etc.) (usually followed by on ): I blame the accident on her.
    3.Informal . blast; damn (used as a mild curse): Blame the rotten luck.

    The free dictionary
    1. To hold responsible.
    2. To find fault with; censure.
    3. To place responsibility for (something)

    Merriam-Webster
    1: to find fault with : censure <the right to praise or blame a literary work>
    2 a : to hold responsible <they blame me for everything>
    b : to place responsibility for <blames it on me>

    It seems that two out out of three of the first definitions support my use of the word (as 2/3 supports yours). You seem to be implying that because something is in the definition, but not the first it therefor is not defined that way. A magazine, then, is only a publication and a bolt fastens things together. They may not have dictionaries in "my neck of the woods" but I do know how to utilize one.

    You, sir, must be a democrat. You seem to push your own perceptions onto the meaning of things, regardless of the defined meaning of it. This definition seems particularly fitting.

    Ass
    a long-eared, slow, patient, sure-footed domesticated mammal, Equus asinus, related to the horse, used chiefly as a beast of burden.
    2.any wild species of the genus Equus, as the onager.
    3.a stupid, foolish, or stubborn person.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Fairfax County, VA
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    BLAME?? I think the word you were looking for is "credit"...
    I thought that was sarcasm.


    ========================
    NRA Certified Instructor & Range Safety Officer
    ========================
    Looking for training by experienced staff?
    We are the largest all female only firearms group on the East Coast offering firearms training courses and services provided by our experienced and certified female instructors.
    http://www.shecanshoot.com/
    =============================
    NRA Certified Instructor & Range Safety Officer
    Teaching classes in Lorton VA & Springfield VA
    PM me if you need a class, RSO or safety briefing

  18. #18
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Dictionary.com
    1.to hold responsible; find fault with; censure: I don't blame you for leaving him.
    2.to place the responsibility for (a fault, error, etc.) (usually followed by on ): I blame the accident on her.
    3.Informal . blast; damn (used as a mild curse): Blame the rotten luck.
    Dictionary.com (continued)
    noun
    4.an act of attributing fault; censure; reproof
    5.responsibility for anything deserving of censure
    Idiom
    6.to blame, at fault; censurable


    The free dictionary
    1. To hold responsible.
    2. To find fault with; censure.
    3. To place responsibility for (something)
    TheFreeDictionary.com (continued)
    n.
    1. The state of being responsible for a fault or error; culpability.
    2. Censure; condemnation.
    Idiom:
    to blame
    1. Deserving censure; at fault.
    2. Being the cause or source of something


    Merriam-Webster
    1: to find fault with : censure <the right to praise or blame a literary work>
    2 a : to hold responsible <they blame me for everything>
    b : to place responsibility for <blames it on me>
    Your first two "sources" are the lexicographer's equivalent of "Wikipedia" (as a source of knowledge) when it comes to definitions of words in the English language - generally close enough. As even you should be able to see, the negative connotation of the word "blame" is preponderate.

    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    It seems that two out out of three of the first definitions support my use of the word (as 2/3 supports yours). You seem to be implying that because something is in the definition, but not the first it therefor is not defined that way. A magazine, then, is only a publication and a bolt fastens things together. They may not have dictionaries in "my neck of the woods" but I do know how to utilize one.
    I "imply" nothing. However, you infer that was my intention. I very clearly stated that, "The FIRST definition is the most common use of a word in the American English language." Let me attempt to explain this extremely complicated() process to you once again - it's all about priority. There cannot be a "first" definition unless there are subsequent definitions. If there are no other definitions, then the existing one is known as "the only definition". A definition at the top of the list is the understanding most commonly attached to that word. For native speakers of the English language, the word "blame" usually carries the negative connotation (similar in that respect to the pejorative "democrat"). But, the "Kain-tuck" version of an English Dictionary would necessarily have to be relatively idiomatic.

    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    You, sir, must be a democrat. You seem to push your own perceptions onto the meaning of things, regardless of the defined meaning of it.
    If you must know, I am an Independent, and severely inclined toward the "right". Therefore you are wrong again. Since we're just "spit-balling" now, I see you as a left-wing, socialist-"progressive"/Marxist dumbocrat. That conclusion is drawn from the fact that you are unable to accept even the possibility that you could be wrong about anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    This definition seems particularly fitting.
    Ass
    a long-eared, slow, patient, sure-footed domesticated mammal, Equus asinus, related to the horse, used chiefly as a beast of burden.
    2.any wild species of the genus Equus, as the onager.
    3.a stupid, foolish, or stubborn person.
    As for your departing definition... it would be more befitting of yourself had you completed the word.

    I now end my involvement in this discussion (if you see it as an argument you may "blame" yourself). For, as Mark Twain once said, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." Pax...
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  19. #19
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Regardless whether you find my other two sources valid a highly published dictionary claims that my definition is also correct. Six out of the nine definitions support my use of the word. As was pointed out I was being sarcastic, but with or without sarcasm my use of the word is correct.

    Also, the negative connotation is a highly implied part of the word but is not definite.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    I sometimes carry this expensive race gun:


    Nice looking 1911 race gun, and relatively mild in appearance compared to most that I've seen. No scope, no holographic sight system, very few frills... and very clean looking! (My comments were directed more toward the "whistles-and-bells" crowd, whose sidearms are adorned to the point they look like something Han Solo would have) Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 05-04-2012 at 09:16 PM. Reason: typo
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  21. #21
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Warrenton, Oregon
    Posts
    317
    So who is going to be the first to post / link this to Joan Peterson's website ?!?

    come on... you know you want to...
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

  22. #22
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Nice looking 1911 race gun, and relatively mild in appearance compared to most that I've seen. No scope, no holographic sight system, very few frills... and very clean looking! (My comments were directed more toward the "whistles-and-bells" crowd, whose sidearms are adorned to the point they look like something Han Solo would have) Pax...
    They are a bit off looking. They are not usually practical in the least. Most are too odd to carry and not even practical for home defense. I understood what you were getting at.

    Attachment 8414
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •