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Thread: Exercising in a public park while armed = "Suspicious"

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Exercising in a public park while armed = "Suspicious"

    This is an "in progress" issue, so I can't comment all that much, but I can provide the basics and any publicly available information.

    Basically, I've been walking in one of two parks that are closest to my house for exercise over the last year or so, (I was walking on Corps of Engineer property that's even closer but after meeting an oddly acting person in a remote area, I no longer feel safe on CoE land.) Last week in the first part of my hourly walk, I was approached by a security guard who noticed that I "had a firearm on my side" and thought it was against the law. My correction of his perception was not taken to heart and I was told to leave the park for 'rudeness' and because I was armed. On my way out of the park, we encountered county police officers who immediately detained me, demanded identification, searched my person, seized and searched my firearm, and then when there was no probable cause to hold me, consulted with the guard and cited me for 'criminal trespass'. I was booked and spent 12+ hours in jail until I could be bonded out.
    I gotta tell ya.... avoid the 'mystery meat', it took hours if not days to rid my sensitive, refined palate of that torturous fare.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    This is an "in progress" issue, so I can't comment all that much, but I can provide the basics and any publicly available information.

    Basically, I've been walking in one of two parks that are closest to my house for exercise over the last year or so, (I was walking on Corps of Engineer property that's even closer but after meeting an oddly acting person in a remote area, I no longer feel safe on CoE land.) Last week in the first part of my hourly walk, I was approached by a security guard who noticed that I "had a firearm on my side" and thought it was against the law. My correction of his perception was not taken to heart and I was told to leave the park for 'rudeness' and because I was armed. On my way out of the park, we encountered county police officers who immediately detained me, demanded identification, searched my person, seized and searched my firearm, and then when there was no probable cause to hold me, consulted with the guard and cited me for 'criminal trespass'. I was booked and spent 12+ hours in jail until I could be bonded out.
    I gotta tell ya.... avoid the 'mystery meat', it took hours if not days to rid my sensitive, refined palate of that torturous fare.
    Damn dude. Sound to me like you got a big case of false arrest. But I am not familiar with your state laws on the matter. You would in my state. How can they arrest you for trespass when you were complying with the order to leave? Hope you have an attorney. Good luck!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Ofc A.B.: How’s everything
    Fallschirmjäger: ‘Morning.

    Ofc A.B.: Hey, sir, I need you to get off the phone, you can call them back.
    Fallschirmjäger: (to Sam on phone) I’ve got to go, I’m being detained by Ofc A.B..

    Ofc A.B.: Do you have any I.D. on you?
    Fallschirmjäger: Am I being detained?
    Ofc A.B.: What’s that? Yeah, you’re being detained. Do you have any ID on you?

    Guy's NASCAR fast, from "How ya doin?" to "You are being detained" in a minute, twelve seconds. Gonna be interesting to hear him articulate his suspicion and reason to detain based on what he was able to see, hear, smell, taste, or otherwise observe in that short of a time.

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    Did you have any recording device going?

    Keep us posted!

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    Sorry for your experience. I thought that in Georgia you could only be charged with trespassing if you refuse to leave after being asked. Did they keep your firearm?

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    Please say you did get it on video thats the only way you have a case keep us posted

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Did you have any recording device going?
    Keep us posted!
    I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of a Sony ICD-PX312 recorder that may or may not have recorded any statements that may or may not have been made over a 55m:16s time period.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 05-02-2012 at 07:03 PM.

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    Well i hope youl be able to confirrm or deny it soon keep us posted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of a Sony ICD-PX312 recorder that may or may not have recorded any statements that may or may not have been made over a 55m:16s time period.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of a Sony ICD-PX312 recorder that may or may not have recorded any statements that may or may not have been made over a 55m:16s time period.
    I like to hear that.
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    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Thumbs up

    Really sorry to hear about your encounter, Fallschirmjager, but I am heartened that a recorder may/may not have been present.

    Please keep us posted when you can, good luck with everything, and please let us know if we can help.
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    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
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    Fallschirmjäger:

    Georgia Law 16-11-126(g) AND 16-11-173(b)(1) Work together in Tandem to Preclude Local Governments from Regulating Park Carry.

    Additionally, Case law under Georgia Carry Organization vs. Coweta County 288 Ga. App. 748 Confirms My Aforementioned Statement.

    United States Federal Law was Amended under The United States Credit Card Act to Authorize Federal Park Carry and Federal Forest Carry as well!

    aadvark

    *** HOWEVER, it is still Illegal to Carry ANY Firearm on Army Corps of Engineers Land, or any Projects undertaken by Them, as The Army Corps of Engineers Property was Unaffected by The Credit Card Act, BUT there is a Piece of Federal Legislation Pending that would Correct that: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1588: ***

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Sad thing; I live just over a mile from an absolutely lovely CoE park, but I can't legally walk there while protecting myself possible harm.

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    Fallschirmjäger:

    I Know now that This Issue Happened in Gwinnett County, Georgia.

    The Atlanta Journal Constitution Ran The Story.

    Gwinnett County Amended Their Law in Response to a Georgia Carry Lawsuit.

    The Documents are Viewable here: http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/cate...county-issues/

    ..., and Their Ordinance Amendment Ordinance is Viewable here: http://www.georgiacarry.com/county/g...0Amendment.pdf

    ..., and here: http://www.georgiacarry.com/county/g...t%20Letter.pdf

    aadvark

    *** Moreover..., if Governor Nathan Deal Signs Senate Bill 432 into Law..., then, Gwinnett County will NOT be able to Restrict Knives in Their Public Parks either! Senate Bill 432, as Passed in 2012, is Viewable here: http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2011_...text/sb432.htm ***
    Last edited by aadvark; 05-02-2012 at 10:48 PM.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of a Sony ICD-PX312 recorder that may or may not have recorded any statements that may or may not have been made over a 55m:16s time period.
    Good for you! This just settled it. I am buying recorders for me and my wife today. As if what happened to SVG wasn't reason enough! Good Luck!
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCrawford View Post
    Yep, they even spelled the name correctly... which honestly surprises me sometimes.

    Remember please, that the interview was done telephonically, and you shouldn't really expect perfect recall, nor 100% accurate quotations when someone is balancing a handset, typing, and carrying on a conversation all at the same time. There are a few inaccuracies, but nothing that could be characterized as a deliberate misquote, Ms Cook did a professional job within those limitations.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 05-03-2012 at 04:13 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    Good for you! This just settled it. I am buying recorders for me and my wife today. As if what happened to SVG wasn't reason enough! Good Luck!
    I recommend taking a pocket knife sheath, magazine carrier, or whatever your favorite method of carrying the recorder with you to the store and trying various models to see if they fit. I had a recorder once that fit perfectly in a magazine carrier... wish I knew where it was now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Yep, they even spelled the name correctly... which honestly surprises me sometimes.

    Remember please, that the interview was done telephonically, and you shouldn't really expect perfect recall, nor 100% accurate quotations when someone is balancing a handset, typing, and carrying on a conversation all at the same time. There are a few inaccuracies, but nothing that could be characterized as a deliberate misquote, Ms Cook did a professional job within those limitations.
    Nothing in the article particularly bothers me. The comments are both saddening and heartening.


    Sent from my M865 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Wow, I'll pray this turns out well for you. If you need defense funds I am sure alot of us will gladly step up. Looks like the LEO did just about everything wrong.

    Assuming the guard did have the authority to toss you out, did the police stop you just inside the park lines, and thats why they cited you? The guard told you to leave and technically you didn't... because the police held you there. If this is true could you not go after them for entrapment too?

    If I am wrong, I will gladly accept the criticism, but if I am right I don't expect an answer if that would endanger your case.

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    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

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    I'd be great if we could get a large group of guys to legally open carry at the park as a group, just as an awareness thing. I'm right around the corner from that park, and have already sent a respectful but pointed email to the city council about the matter before I even saw this post (I found out about this on AJC.com).

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Being in any way 'confrontational' or 'in your face' is possibly not the way to go at this time.
    That is NOT to say that individuals shouldn't exercise their right to walk freely in public, or even undertake moderate exercise with friends.

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    At least they didn't tell you to disarm when you were on your own property this time.

    I hope you're able to get compensation for the violations of your rights. You smell that? It smells like victory.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I recommend taking a pocket knife sheath, magazine carrier, or whatever your favorite method of carrying the recorder with you to the store and trying various models to see if they fit. I had a recorder once that fit perfectly in a magazine carrier... wish I knew where it was now.
    Good suggestion, I bought an Olympus 8000 on the recommendation from a user in our state, and took string line (we use it all the time to make sure things are straight in construction) and made mine into a necklace I wear inside my shirt.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    An interesting read from another thread,

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...officials-quot

    Gives this link, http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/at...8&d=1336088853

    And I quote,

    (“[T]he First Amendment protects a significant amount of verbal criticism and challenge directed at police officers.”); Norwell v. City of Cincinnati, Ohio, 414 U.S. 14, 16 (1973) (“Surely, one is not to be punished for nonprovocatively voicing his objection to what he obviously felt was a highly questionable detention by a police officer.”)
    Given the "being Rude" to the nice officer, or even the mall cop comments made, I thought it may be relevant...

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