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Thread: open carry in hospital???

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    Regular Member HazardousMijo's Avatar
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    open carry in hospital???

    my nephew is in the hospital. can i open carry in his room?

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    If he's not in the psych ward AND hospitals (most) are private property, so they can ask you to leave.

    I would cover, personally.
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    There are no legal restrictions on carrying in a hospital. Just be aware that hospitals are private businesses and have the right to ask you to leave if they don't like it.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi View Post
    There are no legal restrictions on carrying in a hospital. Just be aware that hospitals are private businesses and have the right to ask you to leave if they don't like it.

    This, AND IIRC there was some issue a few years back where they all had to adopt no-weapons policies. Every hospital I've paid attention to has had it posted at the door. Just conceal & don't get to close to the MRI machine.
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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    I know Harrison hospital in bremerton and silverdale and Vergina Mason in Seattle have very clear no weapons signs posted at the door
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Every hospital I've been in recently has a clearly posted sign banning guns. At some, if you visit after regular business hours you have to enter through the ER entrance and some even have metal detectors or a guard with a "wand".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    My wife is a nurse at MultiCare. When I go to visit her at work (lunch dates) I always conceal so as not to give them a reason to lay her off. They did a lot of lay-offs last summer.

    Also the office she works in is the only one I could find in the whole building tht has a no firearms sticker per MultiCare policy. Yet her office is the only one.

    I know Good Sam in Puyallup has no firearms signs at the door. I just conceal in there.

    While trying to find whether MultiCare's policy was actually "No Firearms" I found this on page 20 of the slide show.

    "Call when staff are concerned about their own safety and the safety of others and suspect that someone has a weapon or has taken a hostage"

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...xZHZKsz7I5BL8g

    The thing that stood out to me is that they teach staff/students to call a code silver if they even suspect someone has a weapon and Law Enforcement may be called.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi View Post
    There are no legal restrictions on carrying in a hospital. Just be aware that hospitals are private businesses and have the right to ask you to leave if they don't like it.
    As mentioned - RCW 9.41.300 does prohibit it in certain places in a hospital

    The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress and ingress open to the general public;

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi View Post
    There are no legal restrictions on carrying in a hospital. Just be aware that hospitals are private businesses and have the right to ask you to leave if they don't like it.
    Might think about what you wrote here....Hospital MAY BE private property...not all hospitals are private...Harborview comes to mind, as does North Valley in Tonasket. Both are fully Public hospitals, paid for by property and sales taxes.

    Also, if you have a "private" hospital, and it is supported by a "Hospital District" and property tax, is it "private"? or not?????

    I would not be so big on the "Private" on any Hospital outside a big city...I do believe "Swedish" and St Joe's are actually true private hospitals, but United General outside Sedro and The Hospital in Mt Vernon, I'm not so sure of.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    If the hospital is public, operated by a government other than the State of Washington or Federal then they are prohibited by RCW 9.41.290 from banning firearms except in the secure areas of the mental health ward.
    I agree 100%...that is why I posted that fact that not all hospitals are in fact "private", there are many that are public, and are funded publicly...like NVH just did an expansion..we all voted on the "revenue bonds" Private corperation funded by public funds...don't think so.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    "Call when staff are concerned about their own safety and the safety of others and suspect that someone has a weapon or has taken a hostage"
    The way that is phrased suggests to me that they consider the ONLY reason someone might have a weapon is to take a hostage or commit some other illegal act.

    The thing is, there are literally tens of thousands of objects in a hospital, the most obvious being scalpels, that can be used as a weapon. Guns are tools, just like scalpels are, and both can be misused. Should someone call a code silver just because surgery is taking place? The surgeon has a bladed weapon in hand, after all...

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    If the hospital is public, operated by a government other than the State of Washington or Federal then they are prohibited by RCW 9.41.290 from banning firearms except in the secure areas of the mental health ward.
    I can see how a federal facility, on federal land, could be exempt from the state preemption. But you seem to be saying a state-operated hospital would be exempted from .290 as well, and I'm wondering how exactly is a state-operated hospital not subject to state law? A mere regulation is subordinate to an RCW, which is in turn subordinate to the state constitution.
    Last edited by Difdi; 05-03-2012 at 08:02 PM.

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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    The way that is phrased suggests to me that they consider the ONLY reason someone might have a weapon is to take a hostage or commit some other illegal act.

    The thing is, there are literally tens of thousands of objects in a hospital, the most obvious being scalpels, that can be used as a weapon. Guns are tools, just like scalpels are, and both can be misused. Should someone call a code silver just because surgery is taking place? The surgeon has a bladed weapon in hand, after all...



    I can see how a federal facility, on federal land, could be exempt from the state preemption. But you seem to be saying a state-operated hospital would be exempted from .290 as well, and I'm wondering how exactly is a state-operated hospital not subject to state law? A mere regulation is subordinate to an RCW, which is in turn subordinate to the state constitution.
    Maybe because most State Hospitals are either Mental Hospitals which automatically are a GFZ, or School property where the State may declare it a GFZ.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Maybe because most State Hospitals are either Mental Hospitals which automatically are a GFZ, or School property where the State may declare it a GFZ.
    Can you cite one 'State Hospital' that is on 'School property' that make's it a GFZ?
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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Can you cite one 'State Hospital' that is on 'School property' that make's it a GFZ?
    As I recall the University of Washington Medical Center in partnership with the Shriners use the "Children's Hospital" as a School for their interns to complete their specialty training.

    The Radiology Department there is a prime example of this. http://www.rad.washington.edu/clinic...-clinics/chrmc and when my Grandson was having neurological problems, he was being treated by UW Interns under direction of Experienced Doctors.
    Additional link.. http://uwmedicine.washington.edu/Pat...s/default.aspx and http://www.washington.edu/discover/ in which you will find that is proclaims: Celebrating 150 Years
    Founded in 1861 by a private gift of 10 acres in what is now the heart of downtown Seattle, the UW is one of the oldest public universities on the West Coast. Notice that it is listed as a Public University and not a Private one.

    I also seem to recall that the Washington State University also operates a Medical School/Center near Pullman, WA.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    But you seem to be saying a state-operated hospital would be exempted from .290 as well, and I'm wondering how exactly is a state-operated hospital not subject to state law?


    Because .290 does not apply to state agencies. It very specifically lists "
    Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities" as being preempted. That's it. (A local hospital district, being a municipal corporation, falls under the "other municipalities" clause).

    A preemption argument is correct for state agencies, but the preemption law is the state constitution, not .290.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    As I recall the University of Washington Medical Center in partnership with the Shriners use the "Children's Hospital" as a School for their interns to complete their specialty training.

    The Radiology Department there is a prime example of this. http://www.rad.washington.edu/clinic...-clinics/chrmc and when my Grandson was having neurological problems, he was being treated by UW Interns under direction of Experienced Doctors.
    Additional link.. http://uwmedicine.washington.edu/Pat...s/default.aspx and http://www.washington.edu/discover/ in which you will find that is proclaims: Celebrating 150 Years
    Founded in 1861 by a private gift of 10 acres in what is now the heart of downtown Seattle, the UW is one of the oldest public universities on the West Coast. Notice that it is listed as a Public University and not a Private one.

    I also seem to recall that the Washington State University also operates a Medical School/Center near Pullman, WA.
    Not one of them qualify under state law, RCW, as a GFZ. University's are not 'elementary or secondary school premises'.

    RCW 9.41.280

    Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities Penalty Exceptions.
    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:
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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    This topic has been discussed before here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ospital-Policy

    I posted information in post #18 regarding "Public Hospital Districts" being municipal corporate entities and therefore covered by .290. I also offered cites to show the difference between a "not for profit" entity and the government entity known as a "municipal corporation". You "should" be able to OC in those specific hospitals.

    Personally, I have not tested those waters yet because at the time, it was more important to me to see and be with my family member. I chose to CC.
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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Not one of them qualify under state law, RCW, as a GFZ. University's are not 'elementary or secondary school premises'.
    I would like to ask why you are going ballistic with this?
    Please note how originally I said.. "may declare" meaning as far as I am concerned, it is the States decision to declare what they will. Quoted below.

    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Maybe because most State Hospitals are either Mental Hospitals which automatically are a GFZ, or School property where the State may declare it a GFZ.
    emphasis added

    Your first challenge was demanding that I cite what Hospitals are Schools.. I did that.. now you are at it again!

    I find it strange that you would take my "may" and turn it into an insinuation that I said that They have declared a GFZ!

    You have a right to freedom of speech, You have a right to think how you wish..
    You do not however, have a right to try to put words into my mouth.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I should have gotten a picture... I went to Kadlec Orthopedics in Richland and they have a sign as you enter. "No concealed weapons allowed". I thought that was awesome since I open carry and now don't have to worry about people with hidden firearms.
    I wish more businesses would do this.
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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Not one of them qualify ~~snip ~~ as a GFZ. University's are not 'elementary or secondary school premises'.
    No Universities are not elementary or secondary institutions of education. That does not mean that they can not become GFZ's.

    Since you are being so insistant that you can carry onto a College or University Campus.. Let me provide a bit of clarity for you.
    ~~~~~ http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=504
    Title 504 of the Washington Administrative Code Covers WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY Now take a look at WAC 504-26-213 Firearms and dangerous weapons and you will find that a Student can not even bring an AirSoft pistol into their dorm room. Here is the text of it:
    No student may carry, possess, or use any firearm, explosive (including fireworks), dangerous chemical, or any dangerous weapon on university property or in university-approved housing. Airsoft guns and other items that shoot projectiles are not permitted in university-approved housing. Students wishing to maintain a firearm on campus for hunting or sporting activities must store the firearm with the Washington State University department of public safety.

    ~~~~~~ http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=516
    Title 516 of the Washington Adminstrative Code Covers WESTERN WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY and if you go into WAC 516-52-020 Firearms and dangerous weapons you will find:
    (1) Only such persons who are authorized to carry firearms or other weapons as duly appointed and commissioned law enforcement officers in the state of Washington, commissioned by agencies of the United States government, or authorized by contract with the university, shall possess firearms or other weapons issued for their possession by their respective law enforcement agencies or employers while on the campus or other university-controlled property, including, but not limited to, residence halls. No one may possess explosives unless licensed to do so for purposes of conducting university-authorized activities relating to building construction or demolition.

    (2) Other than the law enforcement officers or other individuals referenced in subsection (1) of this section, members of the campus community and visitors who bring firearms or other weapons to campus must immediately place the firearms or weapons in the university-provided storage facility. The storage facility is located at the university public safety department and is accessible twenty-four hours per day.

    (3) If any member of the campus community or visitor wishes to bring a weapon to the campus for display or demonstration purposes directly related to a class, seminar, or other educational activity, permission for such possession may be applied for at the university public safety department, which shall review any such proposal and may establish the conditions of the possession on campus.

    ~~~~~ http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=172
    From Title 172 of the Washington Administrative Code covers Eastern Washington University, WAC 172-122-120 Firearms/weapons.
    Violations of the subsections of this section are subject to appropriate disciplinary or legal action.

    (1) Possession, carrying, or discharge of any explosive, firearm, chemical weapon (or dangerous chemical) or other weapon; including shotguns, pistols, air guns, pellet guns, and paint ball guns, whether loaded or unloaded; is prohibited on property owned or controlled by Eastern Washington University.

    (2) Only people who are authorized to carry firearms or other weapons as duly appointed and commissioned law enforcement officers in the state of Washington, or commissioned by agencies of the United States government, shall possess firearms or other weapons issued for their possession by their respective law enforcement agencies while on campus or other university-controlled property, including residence halls. A law enforcement agent must notify the university police of his or her presence on campus on arrival.

    (3) Other than the people referenced in subsection (2) of this section, members of the campus community and visitors who bring firearms or other weapons to campus must immediately place the firearms or weapons in the university-provided storage facility, located at the red barn. The storage facility is controlled by the university police office and is accessible twenty-four hours per day throughout the year.

    (4) Anyone seeking to bring a firearm or other weapon onto campus for display or demonstration purposes directly related to a class or other educational activity must obtain prior authorization from the university police department. The university police department shall review any such request and may establish conditions to the authorization.

    (5) Firearms owned by the institution for use by special interest groups such as university-sponsored gun clubs, ROTC, or intercollegiate shooting teams, must be stored in a location approved by the university police department. These firearms must be checked out by the club advisor or coach and are to be used by legitimate members of the club or team in the normal course of the club or team's related activity.
    [Statutory Authority: RCW 28B.35.120(12). 92-22-001, 172-122-120, filed 10/21/92, effective 11/21/92.]
    Last edited by LkWd_Don; 05-04-2012 at 01:55 AM.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I would like to ask why you are going ballistic with this?
    Please note how originally I said.. "may declare" meaning as far as I am concerned, it is the States decision to declare what they will. Quoted below.

    emphasis added

    Your first challenge was demanding that I cite what Hospitals are Schools.. I did that.. now you are at it again!

    I find it strange that you would take my "may" and turn it into an insinuation that I said that They have declared a GFZ!

    You have a right to freedom of speech, You have a right to think how you wish..
    You do not however, have a right to try to put words into my mouth.
    Where did I go 'ballistic'? I simply asked you to cite your statement as I believe it to be misleading.

    No the state may not declare it a GFZ, they are in violation of the RCW.

    Relax.
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  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    No Universities are not elementary or secondary institutions of education. That does not mean that they can not become GFZ's. <snip>
    I am no longer a student, and the worst that can happen is that I am asked to leave. As an alum I attend many events at the UW and I carry each and every time. They may seem to be a GFZ for the student's, but even that is questionable under Article I Sec. 24 of the State Constitution and the RCW.
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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I am no longer a student, and the worst that can happen is that I am asked to leave. As an alum I attend many events at the UW and I carry each and every time. They may seem to be a GFZ for the student's, but even that is questionable under Article I Sec. 24 of the State Constitution and the RCW.
    Not to mention the fact that they can call it a "gun free zone" all they want. Doesn't mean there are no guns there. There's a woman in Portland that had her breasts removed and is legally a man. She had a baby, so apparently she's still a woman no matter what a piece of paper says.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    Not to mention the fact that they can call it a "gun free zone" all they want. Doesn't mean there are no guns there. There's a woman in Portland that had her breasts removed and is legally a man. She had a baby, so apparently she's still a woman no matter what a piece of paper says.
    Evedintly in Canada they have been able to change the birth certificate for a transgender male that has been converted to a female.
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2...he-wrong-body/

    I think trump went about this all wrong, instead of banning trannies, he should just ban any woman who has had any cosmetic surgery, Even natural born women should be banned if they had breast implants, these shows should be about natural beauty not how well they can alter themselves.
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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Where did I go 'ballistic'? I simply asked you to cite your statement as I believe it to be misleading.

    No the state may not declare it a GFZ, they are in violation of the RCW.

    Relax.
    A statement of MAY is misleading? And then continued insistence that I am wrong, implying that because of RCW 9.41.290 The State of Washington can not determine a School a GFZ.. Hummm, think about what you are saying with that..


    In the mean time.. Please read the following and consider how that also would apply to the Rules that the Legislature of the State of Washington May (there is that word again) enact since they have the Full Authority under .290 to do so as they authored RCW 9.41.290 to begin with. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    RCW 9.41.290:

    "RCW 9.41.290
    State preemption.

    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components."

    Who operates a state-operated hospital in the state of Washington? The State of Washington does. Who does RCW 9.41.290 say has the power to occupy the entire field of firearms regulation? The State of Washington. So, if the State of Washington operates a state-operated hospital and the State of Washington occupies the entire field of firearms regulation, what would prevent the State of Washington from regulating the possession of firearms in the hospitals that the State of Washington operates?
    Then I would like to post that for the University of Washington, Title 478 of the Washington Administrative Code applies.
    In this cite.. I will agree it is written to effect Students only, unlike a couple of the others I posted last night which were worded to apply to all who enter the campus. However, the wording in this is generic enough to cause Local LEOs to become involved if need be.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.a...te=478-120-020
    WAC 478-120-020
    (3) Specific instances of misconduct include, but are not limited to:
    ~~
    (f) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on university premises, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university (see WAC 478-124-020 (2)(e)) (legal defense sprays are not covered by this section);
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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