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Thread: Holsters for OC'ing in Washington

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    Regular Member Rbrown's Avatar
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    Question Holsters for OC'ing in Washington

    I carry a G21 in a AKAR holster that doesn't have a retention strap. Is this a legal holster?

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    There is no requirement for retention on a holster in Washington. It's legal.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rbrown View Post
    I carry a G21 in a AKAR holster that doesn't have a retention strap. Is this a legal holster?
    Moved to the Washington sub-forum.

    There is no such thing as a "legal" holster - WA law does not so stipulate. That said, we recommend some form of retention as the prudent thing to do.

    Good primer on OCing in WA can be found here.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rbrown View Post
    I carry a G21 in a AKAR holster that doesn't have a retention strap. Is this a legal holster?
    Well, for 35 bucks, you can get a serpa level 2 holster online. As stated before, retention is highly recomended.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    +1 on the serpa. I own a serpa for all my pistols. It is one of the best for OC. Check some of your local stores for pricing. You might find a comparable price.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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    Regular Member Rbrown's Avatar
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    thanks! I will look in to a new one for OCing

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    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Hi RBrown, welcome to the forum! As was said, retention holster is recommended but not required for OC in general, not just in WA. I along with several others on this forum OC around Spokane (Valley) on a regular basis with not a whole lot of issues. The Eastern WA OC Report is a good thread to read about a lot of our normal activities here. We also get together once in a while for coffee etc.... Speaking of which, probably time for one soon! I'm not available on weekends till June though....

    -Thor

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I have several holsters for several different pistols, they range from full coverage, thumb break, to the trigger guard type. IMHO, you carry with a holster that will not allow you carry to accidently fall out should you happen to go inverted (think roll over car accident, trip and fall down an embankment, fall off a horse, that kind of thing.

    You do not want to loose your carry, ever, and you also want to be able to draw it if needed...it is a compromise to whatever you are doing. Bad weather, full cover. Riding a horse, full cover, or almost full cover. Going to town, thumb break or trigger guard grip as those types are easier to draw from.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    I know everyone loves the serpas, but there are a lot of options other than plastic out there to. I have a very nice leather galco that makes carrying my full-sized 1911 very comfortable. Since I carry everywhere exept when I'm on post (Ft. Lewis) comfort is important to me. For those of you that don't know, no matter what kind of fancy license you may have, if you come onto Lewis, it has to be registered(on base, not just federally), cased, and unloaded. Found that out almost the hard way a while ago. Thank God for an understanding guard that just turned me around!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    I know everyone loves the serpas, but there are a lot of options other than plastic out there to. I have a very nice leather galco that makes carrying my full-sized 1911 very comfortable. Since I carry everywhere exept when I'm on post (Ft. Lewis) comfort is important to me. For those of you that don't know, no matter what kind of fancy license you may have, if you come onto Lewis, it has to be registered(on base, not just federally), cased, and unloaded. Found that out almost the hard way a while ago. Thank God for an understanding guard that just turned me around!
    No license or permit is intended to be fancy - just allows one options as to how they can carry wherever legal. It is our responsibility to know where that is - can't imagine anyone thinking that they could just drive onto a military installation with a gun on their hip.

    What is the reference to federally registered? There is no such thing, excepting Class III.

    Options in holsters abound. I have several nice ones in leather for dress occasions, but prefer Serpas for everyday carry - have several. It is a matter of protection for the gun, ease of draw, and consistency. Carry the way you train & train the way you carry.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No license or permit is intended to be fancy - just allows one options as to how they can carry wherever legal. It is our responsibility to know where that is - can't imagine anyone thinking that they could just drive onto a military installation with a gun on their hip.

    What is the reference to federally registered? There is no such thing, excepting Class III.

    Options in holsters abound. I have several nice ones in leather for dress occasions, but prefer Serpas for everyday carry - have several. It is a matter of protection for the gun, ease of draw, and consistency. Carry the way you train & train the way you carry.
    The "fancy" licences that I refer to are the utah and arizona licences. I've talked to quite a few that don't realize that those may be "multi-state" licences (I realize that most states have reciprocity) but there are limitations on them. I bring up post because I have met and talked to people that didn't realize, or have even tried to carry on post. Just because you and the people that you deal with day to day know all the rules doesn't mean that everyone does. We are out there to educate, right?

    When refering to a "federal" registery, I'm talking about when you purchase a firearm through a FFL. The federal government maintains a database. You can call it what you want, I'm not going to mince words.

    As far as the holsters go, I expressed my opinion, and it is that. I do agree whole heartedly with your comment about training with what you carry. I personally take it a step farther and train in combatives designed to get you free of an attacker so that you can safely utilize your weapon. Would you know this by looking at me? Nope And that's the way it should be in my opinion. I care as a matter of everyday life. Sometimes I conceal, ie if it's cold, or inappropriate.

    In the end, we are on the same team here. There's no reason to nit-pick at each other's posts.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Wolfebane's Avatar
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    I personally like a shoulder holster, for ease of use and for comfort - I already have enough stuff in my pockets that my pants have a hard time staying up anyway that if I had a holster and a gun I'd be arrested for indecent exposure every time I went outside.

    The one I chose, without knowing it, is the Miami Classic - the one from Miami Vice. Which was a nice bonus because I love that show.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    The "fancy" licences that I refer to are the utah and arizona licences. I've talked to quite a few that don't realize that those may be "multi-state" licences (I realize that most states have reciprocity) but there are limitations on them. I bring up post because I have met and talked to people that didn't realize, or have even tried to carry on post. Just because you and the people that you deal with day to day know all the rules doesn't mean that everyone does. We are out there to educate, right?

    When refering to a "federal" registery, I'm talking about when you purchase a firearm through a FFL. The federal government maintains a database. You can call it what you want, I'm not going to mince words.

    As far as the holsters go, I expressed my opinion, and it is that. I do agree whole heartedly with your comment about training with what you carry. I personally take it a step farther and train in combatives designed to get you free of an attacker so that you can safely utilize your weapon. Would you know this by looking at me? Nope And that's the way it should be in my opinion. I care as a matter of everyday life. Sometimes I conceal, ie if it's cold, or inappropriate.

    In the end, we are on the same team here. There's no reason to nit-pick at each other's posts.
    Education should be factual, accurate and use the correct terminology.

    There is no federal registry, tracking system, or any other form of record keeping that maintains who owns what gun and where it might be, excepting Class III.

    Might suggest that if someone successful defends by less lethal means, there should then be no necessity to escalate the encounter - doing so could very well put you on the wrong side of a criminal complaint.

    That is not nit picking. It is the exchange of information, based upon sound principal and embraced by most here.

    Please elaborate on what you mean by "those may be multi-state license". What pray tell is a multi-state license?

    Everyone with whom I deal does not know all of the laws; however, they will not find that to be an adequate legal defense. First, last and always knowing the laws is their sole responsibility. We can instruct, advise and suggest, but the obligation will fall to the principal actor.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Education should be factual, accurate and use the correct terminology.

    There is no federal registry, tracking system, or any other form of record keeping that maintains who owns what gun and where it might be, excepting Class III.

    Might suggest that if someone successful defends by less lethal means, there should then be no necessity to escalate the encounter - doing so could very well put you on the wrong side of a criminal complaint.

    That is not nit picking. It is the exchange of information, based upon sound principal and embraced by most here.

    Please elaborate on what you mean by "those may be multi-state license". What pray tell is a multi-state license?

    Everyone with whom I deal does not know all of the laws; however, they will not find that to be an adequate legal defense. First, last and always knowing the laws is their sole responsibility. We can instruct, advise and suggest, but the obligation will fall to the principal actor.
    I was gonna say....
    I was once told some states even require records of a sale to be destroyed after 30 days. This was told to me by a seller at a gun shop in NH some years ago. According to him the shop was required by state law to destroy any and all receipts/documentation of the transaction within 30 days to protect the privacy of the buyer. I have never tried to confirm this so for all I know it is not true.
    But Grapeshot is correct. There is no Federal Registry.
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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    I was going to type a well thought out redirect here, but I'm worn out from playin with my kid all day. So instead

    As far as my self defense stuff goes, if the attacker stops, then there is no need to use my weapon. The point is to get the distance to either get away, or to use whatever tools are at my disposal to defend myself and my loved ones.

    And as far as the database goes, you're either crazy or nieve if you think that it doesn't exist. I may not be all inclusive, but it's there. Proof you ask? 12 years ago in Tennesse I purchased a 30-30 lever action. a year or 2 later I sold it. I was asked about that firearm here in Washington State 3 years ago. Thank God I keep bills of sale. I'm sure you could explain it away if you try hard enough, but from my expirience, the simple answer is usually the right one.

    More and more, I realizing that there seems to be a couple different groups of people on this site. I'm not here to get into arguments online. I'm here to share my experiences and to give and get advice on carrying in the real world. The way you come off when you (grapeshot) begin to lecture about every point I make in a post is offensive. If you have a problem with one part, correct the one part. Picking apart folks' post isnt moderating, it's being a know-it-all. Like I said, I'm not here to debate, or to play the phrasing game. I'm here to support my fellow carriers and to be supported in return.

    Now I'm tired, and I have to go to work at 5 in the morning, so I'm going to go. I've probably said something horrible, or even worse misconstuable, blame it on the Z monster. Just remember, in the end, we're all on the same team. We can disagree all day long, but I will support any and all of you guys in your rights, and I hope I can expect the same.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Grapeshot is traditionally a voice of reason.
    He was not picking apart your posts. He replied to your post involving fancy licenses.
    He made mention of the federal registry you spoke of.
    Judging from your extremely thin skin you are a POG. If you really want to give and get advice on an online forum you need to fix that.
    This is a forum male dominated forum. The males (and females) on this forum tend to be likeminded and are VERY opinionated. Feelings will be crushed and hearts will be broken.
    Remember there is no human standing in front of you to read body language. Simply read the information being posted. Don't try to interpret thoughts/feelings/hidden meanings, etc.
    People here tend to be upfront. What you see is what you get and you should not try to make it into something else or you will not last.
    Everyone has something to offer whether they be new or long standing member.
    Enjoy your stay here and Carry On.
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    I have a SERPA for my Glock 19 and i love it. Would highly recommend it to anyone looking for a great open carry holster.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Let me try to resolve a few things here w/o any animosity, ill intent. More often than not, one must accept the words for their actual meaning - we don't get benefit of tone of voice, facial expression, or body language - all any of us gets is what is actually written and we are all so limited on these pages. It comes down to "words do have meaning," lacking in the other refining indicators/modifiers.

    We try very hard to not insult people and to not give or take offense personally. Point of fact, insults or personal attacks are direct rule violations. We do respond to statements, claims, misdirection, factual errors in accordance with OCDO's policy of holding facts in higher regard than opinion or personal bias.

    There may be those that would agree that I (note use of first person, singular pronoun) am crazy, naive, offensive in style, come across as a know-it-all and a litany of other derisive terms. While none of those characterizations are intentional sought, suffice it to say that they do go with the territory - my skin is thick and I heal well w/o medical intervention. None of this should be about me - it should only be about OCDO and what works to enhance the desired goals thereof. To that end, I post, listen, watch, discuss and yes moderate too. If that comes across as lecturing sometimes, then there was probably something that needed to be said.......again.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that you (DamonK) are one of the good guys, that you are intelligent and believe in the principal that all people should have/do have the right to protect and defend themselves and their loved ones. I ask that you go beyond your apparent perception that anything here reflects on you personally. I extend my hand in friendship and will gladly share time over a cup of coffee or a meal if we ever should meet.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    I'll happily accept your hand and make peace. I'm not really a forum guy, so I guess I'm still learning the ropes here. And since I do travel quite a bit, one of these days I'll take you up on the offer. I'll bring the coffee though, I've had the coffee in the south Not counting the chicory from the French quarter of course!

    Oh yeah, what's a pog?
    Last edited by DamonK; 05-07-2012 at 10:03 AM. Reason: question

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    <snip> And as far as the database goes, you're either crazy or nieve if you think that it doesn't exist. I may not be all inclusive, but it's there. Proof you ask? 12 years ago in Tennesse I purchased a 30-30 lever action. a year or 2 later I sold it. I was asked about that firearm here in Washington State 3 years ago. Thank God I keep bills of sale. I'm sure you could explain it away if you try hard enough, but from my expirience, the simple answer is usually the right one. <snip>
    There is no 'database', let me explain how your firearm was traced back to you. When a firearm is purchased from a FFL (licensed dealer) a form 4473 is filled out with an NTN number. That firearm/serial number was delivered by a manufacturer/distributor. When a firearm is used in a crime then PC (probable cause) is evident and a trace can begin. It starts with the manufacturer/distributor and who they transferred the gun to for retail sale. (Winchester>Ellet Brothers>Joe's Gun Shop) At that point the ATF calls Joe's Gun Shop and initiates a trace. Then Joe's looks through the 4473's that they are required to keep on hand for 20 years. At this point a name of the original purchaser is delivered to the ATF agent running the trace. The ATF does not have access to the personal information of the original purchaser until PC and contact with the FFL is made.

    (BTW, I run a gun shop)
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post

    Oh yeah, what's a pog?
    You are the second or third person in the Army I have come across that does not know what a POG is.
    POG is a term that has been in use since WWII.
    It means Person Other than Grunt. Basically non Infantry. MOS's like supply, admin, clarinet player, etc.
    GRUNT itself is also an acronym from WWII. It means Ground Replacement Usually Not Trained. It refered to soldiers straight out of Basic that were sent into theater as replacements but never received any more training.
    While I was in the Army I was most unfortunate to have some POGs placed under me to supplement my team while we traveled from Baghdad to Kuwait. One of the POGs came up to me crying because, and I quote, "One of the guys was mean to me!" A grown man was crying because his feelings were hurt. I had never had that happen before. I really had no idea what to do.
    That was where the thin skin comment came from. I am not comparing you to the crying POG. It was simply an example and perhaps not the best one. If you are interested I can give you many more examples.

    About your holster comment. I like SERPAs but I also have a variety of leather holsters. I think I have seven. Lots of different holsters for lots of different uses. Most of them were purchased before I started OC'ing.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Oh Deklin, you shouldn't make asumptions. I went through Benning in '99. Marched through the smoke and headed off to Campbell. Thanks to a few head injuries courtesy of the taliban I don't always put 2 and 2 together. But I can assure you, I'm every bit as blue as you. Let's just let that be the end of it. Like I said, I'm new to the whole forum thing. I'll work on my manners. Maybe you should thing about doing the same. Point of fack though, it may be that your probable lack of any branching out and learning skills beyond that of an infantyman is why you work at home depot. Hopefully, you're going to collage or something as well so that you can continue to move up in the world.

  23. #23
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    What is wrong with working at HD? It's an honest job. I may not have been infantry (air defense aka duck hunter), but we in general give each other a hard time and say get a thick skin. OH I just realized, what does any of this have to do with holsters? BTW no law requiring a certain holster, but I too like my serpa level II.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Oh Deklin, you shouldn't make asumptions. I went through Benning in '99. Marched through the smoke and headed off to Campbell. Thanks to a few head injuries courtesy of the taliban I don't always put 2 and 2 together. But I can assure you, I'm every bit as blue as you. Let's just let that be the end of it. Like I said, I'm new to the whole forum thing. I'll work on my manners. Maybe you should thing about doing the same. Point of fack though, it may be that your probable lack of any branching out and learning skills beyond that of an infantyman is why you work at home depot. Hopefully, you're going to collage or something as well so that you can continue to move up in the world.
    Please do not look down upon people in retail. Plenty of people I know, including myself, have done well in retail over the years. Many years ago when I was a sales rep, I sold products to Home Depot and many of the store managers that I know became millionaires working for that company.

    College (collage?) is great, I went to college. However, don't look down upon those that do not have a college degree (75%) as not being able to work their way up. Some famous college drop outs; Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Marc Zukerberg, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison.....
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Oh Deklin, you shouldn't make asumptions. I went through Benning in '99. Marched through the smoke and headed off to Campbell. Thanks to a few head injuries courtesy of the taliban I don't always put 2 and 2 together. But I can assure you, I'm every bit as blue as you. Let's just let that be the end of it. Like I said, I'm new to the whole forum thing. I'll work on my manners. Maybe you should thing about doing the same. Point of fack though, it may be that your probable lack of any branching out and learning skills beyond that of an infantyman is why you work at home depot. Hopefully, you're going to collage or something as well so that you can continue to move up in the world.
    You shouldn't make assumptions either, Damonk. I find this post to be rude and insulting. You are ASSuming things about someone on this forum that you have never met and know nothing about. FYI, I work part time at Lowes and I am a vet also. It takes a special person to work in retail because we encounter so many different types of people and must deal with all of them in a friendly, helpful manner. Those of us here with some manners do not engage in putting other members of this forum dowb for anything, except maybe if they do something outrageously stupid. We expect the same manners from the newbies.
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