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Virginia Department of Social Services bans gun owners from adopting

Repeater

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Well, not exactly, but the new regulations may as well be regarded as a ban on adoption for gun owners.

This alert comes, not from VCDL, but from John Lott:

New rules for adoptions or foster children in Virginia
5/04/2012

My research shows that such mandatory rules will make families less safe. Accidental guns deaths involving children are very rare, when they do occur they don't involve the child firing the gun, and the locks make it difficult for people to use the guns defensively. The new Virginia rules are available here:

R. Possession of any weapons, including firearms, in the home or independent living arrangement shall comply with federal and state laws and local ordinances.

1. Any firearms and other weapons shall be unloaded and stored with the weapon's safety mechanisms activated in a locked closet or cabinet.

2. Ammunition shall be stored in a locked location separate from the weapon.

3. The key or combination to the locked closet and cabinet shall at all times be maintained out of reach of all children in the home.

So, "Lock Up your Safety" or no adoptions permitted for you.
 

jmelvin

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Holy moley this seems like the kind of crap one might expect out of California, New York and New Jersey! Full state agency pre-emption adds finds itself potentially more supporters (those who would hunt or just sport shoot, but wish to adopt kids).

I'd love to hear our dear Governor McDonnell on this.
 

CrimsonSoul

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I live in Texas and was denied fostering me nieces in Wisconsin because the Texas regulations is exactly the same as this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jmelvin

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This is the kind of crap that flies back into the face of groups like the NRA who like to say "We don't need new laws, let's enforce those we already have!" Well this regulation incorporates Federal law into state law for the distinct purpose of controlling gun owners who might wish to foster or adopt children.
 

TFred

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The problem I see is that it doesn't address the use of firearms for the defense of the home.

I don't think you will win an argument in the court of public opinion that guns in homes with small children should not be locked up when they are stored. But what about the one you carry, or keep by the bed at night?

How do people with small children handle that?

The regulations don't address it all, and they need to be changed to address it, but how? How would you write it?

TFred
 

jmelvin

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Frankly you could probably provide a challenge of that law in court using the findings of Heller v. DC. DC (an entity of the federal government) law required that firearms be locked up and unloaded such that they were not available for ready use within the home and the court case found that the requirement distinctly violated the US Constitution Amendment II. The court found at least that the law banning one from having a firearm ready at hand within the home was not lawful. It appears that this law does the same, but spreads it across the whole of the land if the US Government were willing to prosecute.
 
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VApatriot

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Frankly you could probably provide a challenge of that law in court using the findings of Heller v. DC. DC (an entity of the federal government) law required that firearms be locked up and unloaded such that they were not available for ready use within the home and the court case found that the requirement distinctly violated the US Constitution Amendment II. The court found at least that the law banning one from having a firearm ready at hand within the home was not lawful. It appears that this law does the same, but spreads it across the whole of the land if the US Government were willing to prosecute.

I had that exact same thought; it seems that the Heller case could definitely be applied here. The Court very clearly ruled that access to a loaded, fully functioning firearm in the home is a Constitutionally protected right. How can you be denied equality here based merely on the fact that you exercise your Constitutional rights.
 

aadvark

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Virginia Senate Bill 324 was 'Laid on The Table..., until 2013' by The Virginia Committee of The Courts of Justice during The 2012 Legislative Session!

That Link is Viewable here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+sum+SB324

It is Important to Remember that Virginia Code 15.2-915 Stops Local Governments from Regulating Firearms, HOWEVER; State Administrative Agencies still may under The Failure of Senate Bill 324!
 
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peter nap

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Virginia Senate Bill 324 was 'Laid on The Table..., until 2013' by The Virginia Committee of The Courts of Justice during The 2012 Legislative Session!

That Link is Viewable here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+sum+SB324

It is Important to Remember that Virginia Code 15.2-915 Stops Local Governments from Regulating Firearms, HOWEVER; State Administrative Agencies still may under The Failure of Senate Bill 324!

Yep...and I expect that if you get through the top soil with the DSS, you'll find they get a report on who has a CHP along with a criminal history check.
 

skidmark

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Since the Virginia Department of Social Services is a state agency, 15.2-915 does not apply.

Perhaps, instead, someone should inform them of McDonald v City of Chicago http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf .

Seems those rules about storage are just a teensy-weensy litle bit contrary to what the Supremes had to say about what the States could not do, once they had settled what the Federal Government could not do.

stay safe.
 
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aadvark

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..., [a]nd I Agree with Skidmark, that The United States Supreme Court said that Loaded Operable Firearms within The Home was Constitutionally Protected.

HOWEVER, unless and until it is Established under Virginia Code, as was Proposed under that Legislative Proposal, then, Virginian Administrative Agencies of The Commonwealth will still be at Liberty to Regulate in The Area that Their Local Governmental Unit Counterparts may not.

aadvark
 
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va_tazdad

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So much for being a foster parent

I have talked to my wife about being foster parents in the past, but that has now come to an end with this "regulation".

Guess there is no longer a need for foster parents with a successful track record raising children.

We raised 3 daughters that were all academically outstanding in all levels and now all have bachelors and 2 have Masters degrees, are currently gainfully employed happy and successful.

The last thing I need is some idiot college educated social worker drone that knows nothing about the Constitution or guns telling me to unload my guns and how to store them.
 

Skeptic

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I beleive the the position the big government worker types will take is that while you may or may not have a right to bear arms (in their eyes), you don't have a right to have a foster kid or adopt.

However, one would think they would want more foster parents and not fewer. But then again maybe not, since a big part of the government game is to create at least one problem with every problem you "fix", with an eye to ever bigger government.
 

peter nap

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The state of adoption in this country is horrible. I have no idea what happens to the kids that aren't adopted (which seems like a big percentage) but I've seen the process and am not impressed.

I have a niece who is the icon of a perfect adoptive parent. Married, employed as a School Teacher, owns her own home free and clear never been in trouble and her husband pretty much the same dull way.

She couldn't have kids and tried to adopt. Finally she gave up and basically bought a kid from Chechnya.
A couple of years later, bought another one.

There's something wrong with this system!
 

mk4

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The state of adoption in this country is horrible. I have no idea what happens to the kids that aren't adopted (which seems like a big percentage) but I've seen the process and am not impressed.

I have a niece who is the icon of a perfect adoptive parent. Married, employed as a School Teacher, owns her own home free and clear never been in trouble and her husband pretty much the same dull way.

She couldn't have kids and tried to adopt. Finally she gave up and basically bought a kid from Chechnya.
A couple of years later, bought another one.

There's something wrong with this system!

well, Sir... many blessings on your Niece! :)

sadly, you're right on the general "broken-ness" of the process here, but she's made a huge world of difference for the two children that she's made her own. i have personal acquaintances from the Chechnya and Bosnia parts of the world, and the stories i have heard are absolutely mind-numbing.

you are fortunate to be her Uncle (but i'm sure you didn't need anyone to say it)! i'm blessed to be Uncle to six lovely nieces that i love like they were my own children.
 
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skidmark

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..., [a]nd I Agree with Skidmark, that The United States Supreme Court said that Loaded Operable Firearms within The Home was Constitutionally Protected.

HOWEVER, unless and until it is Established under Virginia Code, as was Proposed under that Legislative Proposal, then, Virginian Administrative Agencies of The Commonwealth will still be at Liberty to Regulate in The Area that Their Local Governmental Unit Counterparts may not.

aadvark

As a general rule it is correct that administrative agencies are not prohibited from regulating firearms - until you get to where administrative agencies establish, under color of law, rules or policies or procedures that have the effect of violating established Constitutional rights. The DSS rule in question does that to otherwise-qualified applicants for adoption. And that, dear readers, is how one counters the "you don't have a [Constitutional] right to adopt" argument.

stay safe.
 

Blk97F150

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What I don't understand about this.... the parents are adopting the kids to make them part of their family... as if they were their own. Yet by way of these rules, the Gubmint refuses to allow the parents to treat the kids as their 'real' children?? :banghead:
 

skidmark

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I have talked to my wife about being foster parents in the past, but that has now come to an end with this "regulation".

Guess there is no longer a need for foster parents with a successful track record raising children.

We raised 3 daughters that were all academically outstanding in all levels and now all have bachelors and 2 have Masters degrees, are currently gainfully employed happy and successful.

The last thing I need is some idiot college educated social worker drone that knows nothing about the Constitution or guns telling me to unload my guns and how to store them.

Having publically stated that it is your desire to be a fioster parent, and proclaiming that your family is otherwise qualified to foster children, I encourage you to apply so that you can obtain standing to challenge the ruling. I have no way of knowing for sure but am willing to stick my neck out and guess that at least one of the organizations that support fostering and adoption might be willing to back some of your action.

But - as a former idiot college educated (MSW, thankyew very much) social worker drone I resent the implication that all of them know nothing about the Constitution or guns. Unfortunately, most are true drones and mindlessly follow policy. Now, had you directed your comments at the ranks of the administrators I'm sure you would find even fewer who know about either subject. Those that authored and approved this policy are certainly amongst that group.

stay safe.
 
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