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Thread: AZ CCW Training

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    Regular Member Morbidph8's Avatar
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    AZ CCW Training

    Hi, I have been think about going and getting my CCW. I have looked online and have found some classes. Mostly 2 hour of class and thats it. While that is very fast and cheap way to go. I feel some actual live fire training would benefit me greatly. I go to the range as much as possible, but I feel I could be a way better shot. I mean I know how to use a gun, but Im not really the best shot. Im sure their is some fundamentals I lack. So can anybody recommend a shooting/ccw class in or around Mesa? I did find a couple of really cool, tactical shooting classes. I would love to do, but feel that is a bit above my head at the moment. Any suggestions? Thanks

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    Regular Member Morbidph8's Avatar
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    Ok

    After doing some searching I found this place. The reviews are really good. Price is good as well. Have anybody gone through this place? I like how its on the range. http://www.blackwolfccw.com/ I think I might go in a couple of weeks. I might even go again for the defensive handgun class as well.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    The requirements are in ARS 13-3112.N .

    It pretty much boils down to an NRA class, Hunter Safety class, or a DPS approved class. DPS went into malicious compliance mode when the new law passed and won't approve courses anymore because so much of their auhtority was taken away. That leaves NRA approved classes as a default, and there are no 2 hour NRA firearms classes that I'm aware (I am an NRA certified instructor). See subsection N.3.

    Some instructors may try to play loosey goosey with Subsection N.1 which is aimed at Gunsite, Front Sight, etc. and college level courses. There may be some NRA instructors who will create "Bubba's Truck Repair and Firearms Training Academy" and offer an online 30 second video course and claim they fit under Subsection N.1, but I would not recommend using them and I doubt their legitimacy.

    My 2 cents.
    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    The requirements are in ARS 13-3112.N .

    It pretty much boils down to an NRA class, Hunter Safety class, or a DPS approved class. DPS went into malicious compliance mode when the new law passed and won't approve courses anymore because so much of their auhtority was taken away. That leaves NRA approved classes as a default, and there are no 2 hour NRA firearms classes that I'm aware (I am an NRA certified instructor). See subsection N.3.

    Some instructors may try to play loosey goosey with Subsection N.1 which is aimed at Gunsite, Front Sight, etc. and college level courses. There may be some NRA instructors who will create "Bubba's Truck Repair and Firearms Training Academy" and offer an online 30 second video course and claim they fit under Subsection N.1, but I would not recommend using them and I doubt their legitimacy.

    My 2 cents.
    Fred
    I know from personal experience that AZ will not accept an online class.
    States donít have rights. People do.

  5. #5
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    I know from personal experience that AZ will not accept an online class.
    It's called hyperbole.

    The original poster said he found a 2 hour class for an AZ CCW permit, which per the law, would be questionable.

    There was also a local Arizona reporter who clainmed that she took a one or two hour class and used it to get her permit, so apparently there are some entreprenuers out there gaming the system.

    Caveat Emptor
    Fred

  6. #6
    Regular Member Morbidph8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    It's called hyperbole.

    The original poster said he found a 2 hour class for an AZ CCW permit, which per the law, would be questionable.

    There was also a local Arizona reporter who clainmed that she took a one or two hour class and used it to get her permit, so apparently there are some entreprenuers out there gaming the system.

    Caveat Emptor
    Fred
    2 hour class right here. Found off backpage.com. http://www.ctrguns.com/training/
    This is not what I'm looking for I want some live fire training... I think I'm gonna sign up for the one place I mentioned in a previous post. The reviews I keep finding for Black Wolf are all good. Kinda far from me but I think it's worth it.

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    You nailed it, Fred. Obtaining another State's permit appears to be another option

    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    The requirements are in ARS 13-3112.N .

    It pretty much boils down to an NRA class, Hunter Safety class, or a DPS approved class. DPS went into malicious compliance mode when the new law passed and won't approve courses anymore because so much of their auhtority was taken away. That leaves NRA approved classes as a default, and there are no 2 hour NRA firearms classes that I'm aware (I am an NRA certified instructor). See subsection N.3.

    Some instructors may try to play loosey goosey with Subsection N.1 which is aimed at Gunsite, Front Sight, etc. and college level courses. There may be some NRA instructors who will create "Bubba's Truck Repair and Firearms Training Academy" and offer an online 30 second video course and claim they fit under Subsection N.1, but I would not recommend using them and I doubt their legitimacy.

    My 2 cents.
    Fred
    One way to meet the requirements is to obtain a permit from another state that requires training, and then use that permit to obtain the Arizona permit. At least that is the way that I interpret 13-3112 N. 6.

    Thanks for any response.
    Last edited by ccwinstructor; 05-06-2012 at 10:37 AM. Reason: correcting statute number

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbidph8 View Post
    2 hour class right here. Found off backpage.com. http://www.ctrguns.com/training/
    This is not what I'm looking for I want some live fire training...
    If you want to develop better skills, work with an instructor with that as your goal, independent of the class requirements, or actually the requirements as they used to be- which were quite minimal. All they had you do was 10 shots total- 5 at 5 yards, 5 at ten yards.

    I'm sure there are many instructors in your general area that you can check out and select from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    One way to meet the requirements is to obtain a permit from another state that requires training, and then use that permit to obtain the Arizona permit. At least that is the way that I interpret 13-3112 N. 6.

    Thanks for any response.

    Correct. So if you already have such a permit...whether current or expired...than you are good to go.
    States donít have rights. People do.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbidph8 View Post
    2 hour class right here. Found off backpage.com. http://www.ctrguns.com/training/
    This is not what I'm looking for I want some live fire training... I think I'm gonna sign up for the one place I mentioned in a previous post. The reviews I keep finding for Black Wolf are all good. Kinda far from me but I think it's worth it.
    They have a lot of misinformation on their site. Tell me what's wrong on the list from CTRGuns.

    * Permit is valid via Reciprocity in 36 States
    * Permit is required to carry in Bars/Restaurants serving alcohol
    * Permit is required to carry in National Parks
    * Permit is required to carry in Game Reserves
    * Permit is required to carry in City Parks less than 1 Sq Mile
    * Permit exempts you from lengthy background checks
    * Gain extensive knowledge pertaining to firearm laws
    * Looked upon favorably among Law Enforcement Officers
    * Legal Defensibility

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    What's wrong is that you do not know the law and you are proving your own ignorance. That is the same information that is included in the Arizona Gun Owner's Guide by Alan Korwin, who is the foremost expert on Arizona gun laws.


    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    They have a lot of misinformation on their site. Tell me what's wrong on the list from CTRGuns.

    * Permit is valid via Reciprocity in 36 States
    * Permit is required to carry in Bars/Restaurants serving alcohol
    * Permit is required to carry in National Parks
    * Permit is required to carry in Game Reserves
    * Permit is required to carry in City Parks less than 1 Sq Mile
    * Permit exempts you from lengthy background checks
    * Gain extensive knowledge pertaining to firearm laws
    * Looked upon favorably among Law Enforcement Officers
    * Legal Defensibility

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica2000 View Post
    What's wrong is that you do not know the law and you are proving your own ignorance. That is the same information that is included in the Arizona Gun Owner's Guide by Alan Korwin, who is the foremost expert on Arizona gun laws.
    What version of the book Jessica?

    No permit is required to carry in National Parks - they follow the state rules.
    No permit is required to carry in any city Park period- that is now pre-empted.
    Legal definsibility? Oh I get it, the old "I took a class so I am ok" defense right?

    The laws change every year and you will find that most of the people on here keep up with them very meticulously. With one post you come in here and accuse ignorance and expose your own. Well done!

  13. #13
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica2000 View Post
    What's wrong is that you do not know the law and you are proving your own ignorance. That is the same information that is included in the Arizona Gun Owner's Guide by Alan Korwin, who is the foremost expert on Arizona gun laws.
    I don't know you but you are ignorant and just proved it.

    If I was mistaken, which I wasn't, you could have simply directed me to the correct information instead of trolling.
    Laws change, they should update their site to reflect it.

    P.S. Thanks Dahwg. I haven't been to the site in a while.
    Last edited by sharkey; 05-23-2012 at 09:16 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    I called CTR guns to ask for "Jessica" but they're closed. Damn. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbidph8 View Post
    After doing some searching I found this place. The reviews are really good. Price is good as well. Have anybody gone through this place? I like how its on the range. http://www.blackwolfccw.com/ I think I might go in a couple of weeks. I might even go again for the defensive handgun class as well.

    Hello Morbidph8,

    Thanks for looking into us. I appreciate it greatly!!!!

    The class we offer is WELL within the law and I stand behind my class/ It is NOT and NRA class outline. We teach you how to shoot using marksmanship as a platform, the AZ CCW is also part of the class too. We give a AZ CCW legal handbook for the students to get familiar with and to keep as thier own guide. our class is good and in 9 years we have done approx 5,000 permit applications.

    For me a class with live fire geared to defensive uses means more than just a plain legal class or a basic NRA class that has nothing to do with the AZ CCW subject.

    Any questions please call (623) 694-0377 or email me at john@blackwolfccw.com

    www.blackwolfccw.com
    Last edited by Black Wolf CCW; 06-18-2012 at 05:20 PM.

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    I will say when the law changed the what the requirements would be for the AZ CCW class, it lost the integrity and credibilty that it once had.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Morbidph8's Avatar
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    Wow

    Cool I can't believe BW commented on my post . Yes I plan on giving you a call soon to enroll in one of your classes. I have been bugging some of my friends to take the class with me, but I'm in the East Valley, so the drive is a PITA for some. I don't mind you have rave reviews online. I'm hopping to take the class next month...

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    Cool

    No problem at all and I just emailed you back.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Morbidph8's Avatar
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    Oh yea I took the class last Sat. Was a blast hahaha. No seriously I learned a lot. Had a lot of fun. I do plan on tacking the advanced pistol class in the future. Thanks BWD!

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