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The cop took my gun...

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Officer safety is not a law, and you are not required to followed. Just because he feels warm and fuzzy is not reason enough to take your gun. Stand up for your rights or don't. And if you don't, don't complain. You gave him permission to take your gun. Plain and simple.

You gave up liberty for security.
 

peter nap

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Oct 16, 2007
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Valhalla
Officer safety is not a law, and you are not required to followed.

I'm ashamed to say it is in Va Tucker.
During an arrest (which a traffic violation is) the officer can search the immediate accessible area for weapons.

He couldn't have looked in the trunk but he can seize any weapons he finds that the violator can easily access.

The fact that he releases the fellow on a summons doesn't make much difference.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
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Sep 23, 2009
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Grennsboro NC
He didn't JUST run your S/N. He most likely entered your gun info and DL info into the BATFE's "eTrace" database. This is becoming standard procedure with any department that has internet access in their cruisers.

BATFE put forward the story that eTrace was ONLY going to be used to database guns that were reported as stolen, and that's how they got it put in place. But the DOJ, DHS and BATFE are now instructing police that they should enter the info for ANY firearm they take possession of into the database. IT is borderline illegal to do this, but who are you gonna call--the police?

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd/etrace-fraud.htm

Your home address, physical description and the S/N and description of your firearm are now almost certainly in a federal database--one that, by the way, was designed to track "crime guns".

Still think that cop was "pretty cool"?
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
...and these traced guns become Brady "crime guns."
 

davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
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earth's crust
OP's not to bright

driving around with a load gun and not knowing what cops can and cannot do....lucky for the OP it turned out the way it did.

OP should look into the laws of the state the OP lives in and become familiar with them -- cops will say almost anything; they think that they can do almost anything ... its up to the citizen to know what the limits of LEOs are.
 

papa bear

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Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
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mayberry, nc
I'm ashamed to say it is in Va Tucker.
During an arrest (which a traffic violation is) the officer can search the immediate accessible area for weapons.

He couldn't have looked in the trunk but he can seize any weapons he finds that the violator can easily access.

The fact that he releases the fellow on a summons doesn't make much difference.

have to disagree with you on that PETER. the only thing that the officer can search without a warrant or probable cause is the the immediate crime. what would searching the car have to do with speeding? would he be checking to see if the accelerator is working? now he could make up some BS, like i smell like you have drugs in the car, but then he would have to produce something. but i am for making the search as hard as possible. i will not consent
 

peter nap

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Valhalla
have to disagree with you on that PETER. the only thing that the officer can search without a warrant or probable cause is the the immediate crime. what would searching the car have to do with speeding? would he be checking to see if the accelerator is working? now he could make up some BS, like i smell like you have drugs in the car, but then he would have to produce something. but i am for making the search as hard as possible. i will not consent

Lots of people disagree and go to jail. It's done every day and upheld by the courts. It is a very deep subject and arguable in court, but that ain't my job. I just go by the results,
[SUP]234[/SUP] Id. at 460 (quoting Chimel v. California, 395 U.S. 752, 763 (1969)). In this particular instance, Belton had been removed from the automobile and handcuffed, but the Court wished to create a general rule removed from the fact-specific nature of any one case. "'Container' here denotes any object capable of holding another object. It thus includes closed or open glove compartments, consoles, or other receptacles located anywhere within the passenger compartment, as well as luggage, boxes, bags, clothing, and the like. Our holding encompasses only the interior of the passenger compartment of an automobile and does not encompass the trunk." Id. at 460-61 n.4.


The common-law rule permitting searches of the person of an arrestee as an incident to the arrest has occasioned little controversy in the Court.[SUP]216[/SUP] The dispute has centered around the scope of the search. Since it was the stated general rule that the scope of a warrantless search must be strictly tied to and justified by the circumstances which rendered its justification permissible, and since it was the rule that the justification of a search of the arrestee was to prevent destruction of evidence and to prevent access to a weapon,[SUP]217[/SUP] it was argued to the court that a search of the person of the defendant arrested for a traffic offense, which discovered heroin in a crumpled cigarette package, was impermissible, inasmuch as there could have been no destructible evidence relating to the offense for which he was arrested and no weapon could have been concealed in the cigarette package. The Court rejected this argument, ruling that "no additional justification" is required for a custodial arrest of a suspect based on probable cause.[SUP]218[/SUP] [SUP]216[/SUP] Weeks v. United States, 232 U.S. 383, 392 (1914); Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S. 132, 158 (1925); Agnello v. United States, 269 U.S. 20, 30 (1925).
[SUP]217[/SUP] Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 19 (1968); Chimel v. California, 395 U.S. 752, 762, 763 (1969).
[SUP]218[/SUP] United States v. Robinson, 414 U.S. 218, 235 (1973). See also id. at 237-38 (Justice Powell concurring). The Court applied the same rule in Gustafson v. Florida, 414 U.S. 260 (1973), involving a search of a motorist's person following his custodial arrest for an offense for which a citation would normally have issued. Unlike the situation in Robinson, police regulations did not require the Gustafson officer to take the suspect into custody, nor did a departmental policy guide the officer as to when to conduct a full search. The Court found these differences inconsequential, and left for another day the problem of pretextual arrests in order to obtain basis to search. Soon thereafter, the Court upheld conduct of a similar search at the place of detention, even after a time lapse between the arrest and search. United States v. Edwards, 415 U.S. 800 (1974).

Now to get it into a little more local perspective, when the Hanover Deputy shot and killed the Figg kid for crawling toward the Deputy in in their driveway, additional responding Deputies handcuffed his mother and other family members who ran out in the driveway to see what had happened. The family members were left in the yard, while The Deputies searched the house for hours.

They were sued in Federal court and the Judge ruled the search justifiable as the house was accessible and the Deputies were allowed to search for weapons.

This all started as a DIR arrest.
 
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twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
I'm ashamed to say it is in Va Tucker.
During an arrest (which a traffic violation is) the officer can search the immediate accessible area for weapons.

He couldn't have looked in the trunk but he can seize any weapons he finds that the violator can easily access.

The fact that he releases the fellow on a summons doesn't make much difference.

A sucker is born every second.

Get this straight. If a cop ASK anything of you, then you are WILLINGLY giving up your right! If he HAD the right to search or seize he WOULD NOT BE ASKING!

It is a dis-service to the rest of us Americans every time someone bends over for some cop in the hopes he might just get a warning or "reduced" ticket...
F-ing disgusting.
 

peter nap

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Valhalla
A sucker is born every second.

Get this straight. If a cop ASK anything of you, then you are WILLINGLY giving up your right! If he HAD the right to search or seize he WOULD NOT BE ASKING!

It is a dis-service to the rest of us Americans every time someone bends over for some cop in the hopes he might just get a warning or "reduced" ticket...
F-ing disgusting.

You don't read real well do you hotshot?

You get this straight. What I wrote agrees with what you said but no one is saying anything about the Cop asking.

They can and do search the immediate area and person of people detained....without asking.

I agree...never give permission. That's not the subject though.

The OP said the Cop told him to give him the weapon. He can do that. I don't like it but spouting off about bending over, doesn't change the facts.

If in your 13 whole posts you have gained some divine insight about how to prevent him from taking it....please let us all hear about it.
 
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peter nap

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have to disagree with you on that PETER. the only thing that the officer can search without a warrant or probable cause is the the immediate crime. what would searching the car have to do with speeding? would he be checking to see if the accelerator is working? now he could make up some BS, like i smell like you have drugs in the car, but then he would have to produce something. but i am for making the search as hard as possible. i will not consent

Anyway pb....in Va officer safety carries a lot of weight with the courts. That's why the cops are constantly babbling about it.

COURT OF APPEALS OF VIRGINIA Present: Chief Judge Fitzpatrick, Judges Benton, Coleman, Willis, Elder, Bray, Annunziata, Bumgardner and Lemons Argued at Richmond, Virginia CURTIS S. RHODES OPINION BY v. Record No. 1292-97-2 CHIEF JUDGE JOHANNA L. FITZPATRICK MAY 4, 1999 COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA

In Robinson, we held that the authority to conduct a full field search as incident to an arrest was a "bright-line rule," which was based on the concern for officer safety and destruction or loss of evidence, but which did not depend in every case upon the existence of either concern. Here we are asked to extend that "bright-line rule" to a situation where the concern for officer safety is not present to the same extent and the concern for destruction or loss of evidence is not present at all. We decline to do so.
 

davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
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earth's crust
Officer safety is not a law, and you are not required to followed. Just because he feels warm and fuzzy is not reason enough to take your gun. Stand up for your rights or don't. And if you don't, don't complain. You gave him permission to take your gun. Plain and simple.

You gave up liberty for security.

Basically what I said earlier .. only to have my post deleted my an Obama lover.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
This was in Lynchburg about 45mins from Roanoke. Why do u suggest selling the gun is my firearm now in some database for law enforcement?
You can bet on it!
I can't lay my hands on the citation, but if I remember correctly....
For accounting purposes (aka inflating the numbers) any firearm that legally comes into the possession of law enforcement is counted as a 'crime gun'. After all... some sorta crime had to make them come into possession of it, they don't go 'round stealing them.
Is the serial number from the search stored anywhere? If there's not a law mandating that the number/search be erased I'd be more than willing to bet the data is retained for 'archival purposes.' And it's a quick electronic search to find things like that.



.... that wouldn't make me sell it though.
 
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ManInBlack

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Jul 2, 2006
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1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Anyway pb....in Va officer safety carries a lot of weight with the courts. That's why the cops are constantly babbling about it.

Do you happen to have the cite which says all traffic stops qualify as arrests? I do understand that if the OP was going over a certain amount, it becomes "reckless driving" and it is a crime. I am asking about regular traffic stops for say, 5 over.

I mean, if every traffic stop counts as an arrest, wouldn't they have to read you your rights before asking, "Do you know how fast you were going?"
 

peter nap

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Do you happen to have the cite which says all traffic stops qualify as arrests? I do understand that if the OP was going over a certain amount, it becomes "reckless driving" and it is a crime. I am asking about regular traffic stops for say, 5 over.

I mean, if every traffic stop counts as an arrest, wouldn't they have to read you your rights before asking, "Do you know how fast you were going?"

Actually I don't and it gets into Symantecs. It's listed by the Police on all their reports as an Arrest (Ever wonder how a police department can make so many "Arrests" and there are still murders, rapes and robberies going on):lol:

It is by any definition a detention which amounts to the same thing and if you read some of the case law, they specifically talk about traffic stops that the person was released or could have been released on a summons.
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Do you happen to have the cite which says all traffic stops qualify as arrests? I do understand that if the OP was going over a certain amount, it becomes "reckless driving" and it is a crime. I am asking about regular traffic stops for say, 5 over.

I mean, if every traffic stop counts as an arrest, wouldn't they have to read you your rights before asking, "Do you know how fast you were going?"
What Peter Nap said, plus...

If you don't think it's an arrest, try driving away before the cop tells you that you can.

And your second question is one I have never understood, because EVERYTHING you say during a traffic stop WILL come back to convict you in court. Why don't you have to be reminded of your rights then?

TFred
 

scouser

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Apr 4, 2011
Messages
1,341
Location
804, VA
LOL I went from owing over $200 to the city to $30 I think thats pretty damn cool. Also I have nothing to hide in my trunk. You telling me you'd rather pay $200 over $30???????

myself I'd rather pay $0 over $30 or $200. Also I have very little time for people who think it's cool to drive 55 in a 35, which is more than likely a residential area where kids might be present. Someone care to drive that speed where my child is and that driver had better pray the cops get to him before I do.

Actually I don't and it gets into Symantecs. It's listed by the Police on all their reports as an Arrest (Ever wonder how a police department can make so many "Arrests" and there are still murders, rapes and robberies going on):lol:

It is by any definition a detention which amounts to the same thing and if you read some of the case law, they specifically talk about traffic stops that the person was released or could have been released on a summons.

in very simple terms doesn't 'arrest' mean 'stop'? Hence if stopped by the cops and detained, not free to leave, aren't you arrested?
 

All American Nightmare

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May 25, 2009
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Never Never Land
Thursday I was leaving work and on my way home I got pulled over for doing 55 in a 35. I had my handgun laying on the seat next to me. The cop walks up to my door and says, "Oh I see a gun there", thats when I say to the officer "yes sir I am OCing and I am going to grab my car regristration out of the glove box now." Thats when he says to me, " Let me remove that pistol for my own safety". Not knowing if the cop had that right or not, I told him ok. So he took my gun unloaded the mag and went back to his patrol car. I am sure he ran the serial numbers to check to see if the gun was stolen. My question is could I have lawfully stopped the cop from removing my firearm? He turned out to be pretty damn cool in the end. He came back and said since you were so cool with me I only going to give you a ticket for "failure to obey a traffic sign-$30 fine". Then he asked me to open my trunk so he could leave me 9mm there. I popped the truck and layed the gun back there. All and all not a big deal but I wasnt aware a police officer had the right to remove my gun without cause for it....

Sounds like you got owned you have alot to learn grasshopper.
 

ManInBlack

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Jul 2, 2006
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SW Idaho
What Peter Nap said, plus...

If you don't think it's an arrest, try driving away before the cop tells you that you can.

And your second question is one I have never understood, because EVERYTHING you say during a traffic stop WILL come back to convict you in court. Why don't you have to be reminded of your rights then?

TFred

Obviously, my policy in any interaction with law enforcement is to say nothing.

However, I was more curious as to a hypothetical situation. My understanding of Miranda is that police must advise a suspect of his right when questioning him while under arrest. If I am mistaken, I would love to be corrected (with cites, please).

Until and unless someone can show me that any traffic stop in Virginia (for an infraction, not a crime) is an arrest, I decline to believe that an officer can search the vehicle absent any other RAS or probable cause.
 

Blk97F150

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Dec 21, 2010
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Virginia
Actually I don't and it gets into Symantecs. It's listed by the Police on all their reports as an Arrest (Ever wonder how a police department can make so many "Arrests" and there are still murders, rapes and robberies going on):lol:

It is by any definition a detention which amounts to the same thing and if you read some of the case law, they specifically talk about traffic stops that the person was released or could have been released on a summons.

Its been a couple years since I got a traffic ticket, but they used to say 'Arresting Officer Name:' (or something close to that). I'm pretty sure you are correct, that the traffic ticket is an arrest, and the person is released on a summons to appear in court (or they can plead guilty and pay the fine).
 
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