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carrying a rifle in the north cascades national park

skiingislife725

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Jul 26, 2009
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Lake Stevens, WA
Also, you're not alone in worrying about the 4 legged buggers. I carry my guns in the woods just in case the bear or cougar decides it wants a snack.

I think the reason so many of us are mentioning to not worry so much about bears is that statistically it's an astronomically low danger. In fact, you're ~13000x more likely to be the victim of a murder than you are to be killed by a bear. You'd be a lot better off carrying bear spray (at least based on the numbers of bear attack survivals with spray vs guns) and a bigger first aid kit or more clothes/water/food. And you'd probably still be carrying less weight. Just sayin'. But hey, it's a free country, do what makes you feel comfortable, not what makes you more safe from bears.

Related link, from a hunter dude who lives on Kodiak Island (probably one of the highest densities of brown bears in the world...and the biggest): Bearanoia will destroy ya
 
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k.rollin

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Feb 18, 2010
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Bellingham, Washington, USA
I spent a lot of time hiking in the NOCA complex last summer (my girlfriend is a dispatcher there) and we had one encounter with a black bear. They really aren't a threat if you behave appropriately. At no time did I feel unsafe or threatened when the bear crossed the trail in front of us. We just stopped, the bear looked at us, then it tore ass down the hill. We know of the difference between feeling safe and being safe, so if a firearm makes you feel safe that's fine, but remember that situational awareness, knowing how to prevent an encounter, and knowing how to react in an encounter will keep you safer.

Personally, I'd worry more about two-legged predators that are out there running illegal operations like the marijuana plantation that was busted in 2008.
http://www.nps.gov/noca/parknews/ma...d-from-ross-lake-national-recreation-area.htm
 

thewise1

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Moscow, ID
The current NPS rule is that one can carry firearms in National Parks in accordance with the laws of the state in which the park is located - know the laws of your state. Excepted/restricted is carrying in any facility (building) where NPS employees regularly work - note must have clear signage to this effect. Private vendors, leased facilities may set their own rules.
http://www.nps.gov/mora/parkmgmt/upload/FirearmsPublicFAQs.pdf

Long gun carry is off topic for OCDO (see rule #14 Forum Rules). Insofar as NPS regulations are concerned, OC or or packed long guns are not restricted. It is most important to know your own state laws regarding carrying, transporting and possession of long guns as that will ultimately be the deciding factor.

This thread will be kept open if it does not stray from the narrow confines of legality and does not enter into "but it's my right" or otherwise expanding the discussion beyond the OP's original question(s). Expect the thread to be closed otherwise. Remember the theme/purpose of OCDO is to defend and promote the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns as we go about our normal, everyday business and that alone - period, exclamation point.

Understood, and appreciated - I don't know of any other forum on the internets that sticks with the legality vs factpinion as well as OCDO, so it immediately came to mind when I wondered about the legality.
 

thewise1

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Location
Moscow, ID
To address the folks pointing out the risk of bear attack is low (And also rightly pointing out that .223 may not be the best choice for bear defense), I do feel like I should clarify - I made the bear comment mostly in jest.

Only final question on this: Lots of you have indicated open carrying the rifle is fine. Any issue keeping it in my backpack, with loaded mag not inserted? I do not possess a concealed carry permit.

Sorry, I don't mean to deviate from handgun OC too much. I wish I had one, I'd just do that instead ;)
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

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Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
For concealing, here's what I found on the subject


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
The above only mentions pistols requiring the CPL, which makes sense since it's a Concealed PISTOL License

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270
RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.
This is one we all know and love and is about openly carrying, not concealed but I figured I'd include it.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250
RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty — Exemption for law enforcement officers.


*** CHANGE IN 2012 *** (SEE 2347-S.SL) ***

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm unless the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

(2) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to:

(a) The possession of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer while the officer:

(i) Is on official duty; or

(ii) Is transporting the knife to or from the place where the knife is stored when the officer is not on official duty; or

(b) The storage of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer.
This is the section that I think that you'd have to worry about. (1)(b) mentions furtively carrying with the intent to conceal, that's what could bite you in the rear if you kept the rifle in a backpack if it fit. I don't see the definition for "furtively" in the RCW but I can find it on dictionary.com
fur·tive   [fur-tiv] Show IPA
adjective
1.
taken, done, used, etc., surreptitiously or by stealth; secret: a furtive glance.
2.
sly; shifty: a furtive manner.

So yeah, I'd say that OCing the rifle would put you in a better situation than trying to conceal it, even if someone were to confront you for it.
 

Trigger Dr

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Understood, and appreciated - I don't know of any other forum on the internets that sticks with the legality vs factpinion as well as OCDO, so it immediately came to mind when I wondered about the legality.

But, you need a really good BS filter, as there are quite a few "experts" (self styled) on every subject that you can think of. There are also a few on here that are well informed, educated and reliable with their information ie NavyLcdr, Olypendrew, Lammo, Gogodawgs, Big Dave.
 
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amlevin

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Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
This is the section that I think that you'd have to worry about. (1)(b) mentions furtively carrying with the intent to conceal, that's what could bite you in the rear if you kept the rifle in a backpack if it fit. I don't see the definition for "furtively" in the RCW but I can find it on dictionary.com


If that were true than it would be illegal to carry a rifle in a gun case. Especially those called "Discreet Cases" where they are designed to disguise the fact that they have a rifle in them (rectangular cases that carry AR's in two pieces).
 

sirpuma

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Nov 1, 2007
Messages
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Location
Deer Park, Washington, USA
If that were true than it would be illegal to carry a rifle in a gun case. Especially those called "Discreet Cases" where they are designed to disguise the fact that they have a rifle in them (rectangular cases that carry AR's in two pieces).

The only prohibition on loaded long guns is in a vehicle. You may not have a loaded long gun in a vehicle.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Location
Valhalla
Gentleman this is dragging out somewhat. Rather than lock it as OT, I am moving it to the General Discussion sub-forum where it probably belonged in the first place. Still, I don't recommend belaboring the point of carrying a long gun beyond answering the OP's initial question. This thread could still be locked.
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

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Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
If that were true than it would be illegal to carry a rifle in a gun case. Especially those called "Discreet Cases" where they are designed to disguise the fact that they have a rifle in them (rectangular cases that carry AR's in two pieces).

A backpack should be treated the same as a guncase, but the wording could get you. RCW 9.41.250(1)(b) could give you trouble because of that wording. If the police for some reason found a way into your bag, you'd have to argue your case about how you weren't "Furtively carrying with intent to conceal" the rifle and just transporting or carrying it in a bag. I know that I never "furtively carry with the intent to conceal" anything except maybe a handgun (with CPL) every now and then. All of my other things just carry so much easier in pockets rather than trying to have what would start to look like a ghetto duty belt.

I'm not saying that carrying in the backpack is illegal, I'm just looking at the other side of potential situations that you should prepare for. Make sure if you do get confronted and accused that you can articulate why you're not breaking that law. Also, it need not be said, but never volunteer your bag to be looked in lol.
 

thewise1

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Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
383
Location
Moscow, ID
We actually ended up going into the boulder river wilderness instead of the NCNP.

In the end I just ended up slinging it over my shoulder and open carrying it. Lots of entertaining looks on the trail from hikers/backpackers, but only a positive comment from one guy.

Thanks for being patient with the OT question.
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
We actually ended up going into the boulder river wilderness instead of the NCNP.

In the end I just ended up slinging it over my shoulder and open carrying it. Lots of entertaining looks on the trail from hikers/backpackers, but only a positive comment from one guy.

Thanks for being patient with the OT question.

Glad that it worked out and that you didn't have any negative interaction. Hopefully those hikers that gave you odd looks saw that the gun didn't magically go off and are a little more pro-gun after the fact.
 
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