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Thread: It will be interesting to see how this one plays out

  1. #1
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    It will be interesting to see how this one plays out

    Damaged mailbox leads to charges

    Tuesday, May 8, 2012

    CHESTERVILLE Two residents face charges after a verbal dispute over damage to a mailbox escalated into a threat with a loaded pistol, police said.

    Michael L. Jacques, 46, of Sand Pond Road in Chesterville was arrested on a felony charge of criminal threatening with a firearm on Saturday, Franklin County Sheriff Lt. Niles Yeaton said Monday.

    Michael Maillett, 21, also of Sand Pond Road in Chesterville, was issued a summons on misdemeanor charges of criminal mischief and violation of condition of release in connection to another case.

    There are mailboxes in a group and Jacques' saw that his was dented in the front, Yeaton said. He thought he knew who did it and confronted the man.

    Maillett is accused of damaging the mailbox, he said.

    Jacques and Maillett were in a verbal discussion that escalated to the point they were going to fight, he said. Maillett picked up an aluminum pipe about 5 feet long, Yeaton said, according to Cpl. Ken Charles' report. Jacques went to his truck got a pistol and loaded it, Yeaton said.

    Witnesses said Jacques was armed and threatened to kill Maillett, Yeaton said.

    Witnesses said Maillett got rid of the pipe and went back to his house.

    Jacques posted $3,000 cash bail Saturday to get out of Franklin County jail in Farmington. He is scheduled to appear on July 25 in Franklin County Superior Court.

    Maillett is scheduled to appear June 28 at Farmington District Court.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Think that Mr. Jacques is likely going to have difficulties. He apparently safely withdrew from the situation/threat and returned armed - he became part of the problem.

    All he needed to do was call 911 and follow through with reporting the incident, being a good witness. We shall see.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    We know that section 105 of the criminal code permits "a reasonable degree of nondeadly force upon another person when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes it necessary to prevent . . . criminal mischief. There is (nor could there be logically) a duty of retreat for THAT. We also know from State v. Lord that "threatened use of deadly force is the equivalent of non-deadly force". Absent some screwy provocation facts, this should be an easy one. No charges for Jacques -- if the investigation sustains the newspaper version of events.
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    Regular Member Ballistic Otters's Avatar
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    I think we need to understand the logistics of the situation before passing judgment. We can't know whether or not he's guilty yet, but perhaps Yeaton followed him, or he could not have safely driven away. Maybe he was just shaken up from the confrontation and decided that leaving his house (and family?) at the mercy of this guy while he left and phoned 911 was a bad idea. We really need to know the layout of the area and the movements of the two individuals before we can pass judgment.

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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    All he needed to do was call 911 and follow through with reporting the incident, being a good sheep. We shall see.
    Fixed it for you.

    I know it's the law and all, but I really don't have a problem with citizens handling things in their own neighborhoods without involving armed strangers who happen to work for the State.

    Maillett picked up a deadly weapon with intent to cause harm. Jacques retrieved a deadly weapon of his own, and deterred violence. Both of them ended the encounter without injury.

    From a natural law perspective, I don't see that Jacques did anything wrong whatsoever. If I were on a jury, and knew only the facts I know now, I would vote to acquit.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
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    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    And jury nullification if needed.
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    http://www.ehow.com/list_6461782_law...ox-damage.html

    ....oops, the feds could, could, get involved if someone wants to get all uppity about it.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    And jury nullification if needed.
    Hear, hear!
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    All he needed to do was call 911 and follow through with reporting the incident, being a good witness. We shall see.
    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Fixed it for you.

    I know it's the law and all, but I really don't have a problem with citizens handling things in their own neighborhoods without involving armed strangers who happen to work for the State.

    Maillett picked up a deadly weapon with intent to cause harm. Jacques retrieved a deadly weapon of his own, and deterred violence. Both of them ended the encounter without injury.

    From a natural law perspective, I don't see that Jacques did anything wrong whatsoever. If I were on a jury, and knew only the facts I know now, I would vote to acquit.
    Changed it right back too.

    Might surprise you, but I don't find that funny. I really meant what I said - it was serious thing. I admit I do not know your state laws as well as I might Virginia's - I do know that withdrawing from the situation and getting a gun and coming back will make you at least part of the problem. If someone dies, you may well be charged with at least manslaughter and be convicted.

    It could not be called self-defense IMO, because when he left/withdrew there was nothing from which to defend. He returned armed (mucho macho) and he became the aggressor. I'm sure you heard that "two wrongs don't make a right" - apply as needed.

    We are not vigilantes, we do not take the law into our own hands. OCDO even has a rule that relates to this:


    • (15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Jacques went to his truck got a pistol and loaded it, Yeaton said.

    Witnesses said Jacques was armed and threatened to kill Maillett, Yeaton said.

    Witnesses said Maillett got rid of the pipe and went back to his house.
    Nowhere in the article does it state Jacques returned to the threat. It simply states he retrieved his unloaded firearm from his vehicle and loaded it and employed non-deadly force; justifiable under Maine law as the article describes the circumstances.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    www.mainecwptraining.com

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  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine CWP Training View Post
    Nowhere in the article does it state Jacques returned to the threat. It simply states he retrieved his unloaded firearm from his vehicle and loaded it and employed non-deadly force; justifiable under Maine law as the article describes the circumstances.
    Hmmm - you may well be right - I seem to have exceeded the facts.

    Would be nice to check further, but the is no cite/link.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We are not vigilantes, we do not take the law into our own hands. OCDO even has a rule that relates to this:


    • (15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
    This is exactly what I was talking about. Turn down the crank-o-meter.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    http://www.sunjournal.com/news/frank...harges/1192280

    Dude with the pipe did not remove himself from the 'area' either. Didn't drop the pipe until he realized he was about to get into a pipe fight and the other dude brought a gun.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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