anti defensive carry at VCDL event

this came up as a discussion between some of the VCDL table at a gun show. about the up coming shoot at the Roanoke rifle and revolver shoot for the VCDL on May the 12th. i was concerned that because i was told i would not be allowed to carry there. i thought this couldn't be right at a VCDL event. so i tried to verify the info. i was confused by the first two responses i got so i wrote Phillip VanCleve. bit of a lengthy read, but i would like to get everyone's opinion. you may want to read this from bottom to top


To:



Oh, no! You're not going to tell the world about our SECRET plan to disarm gun owners are you, Chris???? ;-)

Tell you what - why don't you hold your own match that allows loaded guns in holsters (keeping in mind the associated legal risk to you in case something goes wrong as you are the person hosting and setting the rules)? And, like the RRRC shoot, all gun owners, even those who are brand new shooters, are welcome. If you've even been to a shooting range, you know that not everyone has learned and/or practices the basic firearm safety rules.

I have no problem with you not participating for whatever reason you so choose. That's part of being free. Heck, I haven't gone lots of places that ban guns. For me, shoots and matches are not one of those places.

And, of course, I don't really care if you post your VCCDL comment - free speech at its finest! But don't be surprised if everyone who has attended a match looks like you with their eyebrows up. ;-)


Philip

On May 8, 2012, at 10:35 AM, chris rakes wrote:

> if i am not allowed to carry my self defense firearm while i am there then i don't go. i would suggest that you change the name of the VCDL to the VCCDL, Virginia Citizen Can't Defense League. i will post on on the sites i am on about this. good luck CR
>
> --- On Mon, 5/7/12, Philip Van Cleave <> wrote:
>
> From: Philip Van Cleave <>
> Subject: Re: Contact: personal carry
> To:
> Date: Monday, May 7, 2012, 9:36 PM
>
> Chris,
>
> It is a shooting match. People will be drawing guns and firing them. Groups will be moving from station to station. So, they want your gun in the holster unloaded. You can have loaded magazines on your hip - no problem. When it is your turn to shoot, you step up to the firing line, load your gun on command, and then the round starts. When you are done, you will unloaded and show clear, and then dry fire your gun to decock it, and then holster your unloaded gun. You will then reload your mags and the group will then move on to the next station.
>
> It's sort of like the old California carry - unloaded gun, but loaded mags on your hip.
>
> I don't know of any matches that allow everyone to walk around with a loaded gun when not actively shooting in the match.
>
> Regards,
> Philip
>
>
> On May 7, 2012, at 9:11 PM, chris wrote:
>
> > HI Philip
> > i am having concerns weather or not we will be able to carry our self defense at the match. i have received what looks like two different answers from people at the club. i have sent another note for clarification.
> > if i am not allowed to carry at the event i will not be there, and i will tell others not to be there. look, WTH would me carrying in my holster (and i do not handle it) has to do with saftey. i would appreciate some clarification on this. Thanks CR
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/7/12, Mike H <> wrote:
> >
> > From: Mike Henson <>
> > Subject: Re: Contact: personal carry
> > To: "Roanoke Rifle & Revolver" <>, "Chris Rakes" <>
> > Cc: "Paul Deel" <>
> > Date: Monday, May 7, 2012, 5:14 PM
> >
> > Hi Chris
> >
> > Welcome to rrrc idpa!!! All of the rules surrounding idpa is at idpa.com. The entire purpose is to shoot your carry weapon. However...to jims point...we are a cold range. Safety first. Hope you enjoy yourself!!!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
> >
> > On May 7, 2012 2:21 PM, Roanoke Rifle & Revolver <> wrote:
> >
> > Why would that be the case??
> > It is a match after all, a VCDL match!
> > If you are participating you will need a gun, if you are a spectator your
> > gun must stay in the holster.
> > It seems that some rumor mongers are our worst enemies.
> > I would be careful when taking advice from these individuals.
> > Jim S
> > Roanoke Rifle and Revolver Club, Inc.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris >
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 9:42 PM
> > Subject: Contact: personal carry
> >
> >
> > > Name:
> > >
> > > Email:
> > >
> > > Subject: personal carry
> > >
> > > Message: hey, i am a member of VCDL and was thinking of coming to the
> > > may 12 event, but as of a conversation with others i was told that i
> > > would not be allowed to carry my personal protection. is this the
> > > case? Thanks CR
> > >

"> I don't know of any matches that allow everyone to walk around with a loaded gun when not actively shooting in the match."

I do and have.

I haven't been to any specific matches because of just this kind of policy, but I have been to ranges that have no issue with a person keeping a loaded sidearm on himself, provided it remains holstered. Since I have access to a hunt club where I can shoot as I please I bypass the local range purely based upon their rules that require me to handle my sidearm to unload and re-load the thing unnecessarily away from the firing line. I suppose I could deal with going to a shoot if they provide a loading / unloading pit to ensure people may do it in a safer environment that can capture a round since they are asking people to handle their firearms needlessly.

Thankfully because of this e-mail I'll know to avoid Roanoke Rifle & Pistol Club even when shopping.

This wasn't the rule at the Culpeper shoot a few yrs ago.

I don't understand the cold range thing.
I don't know how some ranges/events are totally okay running a hot range and others have issues, human nature I guess.

When I shot IPSC/IDPA it was a cold range but Paladin, Pin and the steel shoots were okay with running a hot range (same facility).

The no loaded carry for non chp holders, members must be NRA members and members must submit to a background check or have a valid CHP are keeping me from joining Rivanna Rifle and Pistol club.

Glad I have private property to shoot on.

I won't be attending this event.

none of the events had issues with non shooters carrying loaded, no touchy was the rule...

papa bear said:

i would suggest that you change the name of the VCDL to the VCCDL, Virginia Citizen Can't Defense League. i will post on on the sites i am on about this. good luck CR

Click to expand...

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

ed said:

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

Click to expand...

VCDL is, in this instance, taking an anti-open carry position.

ManInBlack said:

VCDL is, in this instance, taking an anti-open carry position.

Click to expand...

VCDL supports gun shows too.. in fact are the reason they still exist in Chantilly... Even though the gun show has strict rule against loaded CC or loaded OC but can assure you they are not anti gun, anti oc or anti cc.

You can insult me and you can insult my dog ...

But don't ever insult VCDL here ...

But seriously ... don't. They have been the single greatest force for good it has ever been my pleasure to work with.

Thread is locked.


John