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Thread: STUDY finds: More Support for Gun Rights, Gay Marriage than in 2008, 2004

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    STUDY finds: More Support for Gun Rights, Gay Marriage than in 2008, 2004

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I don't support State Sponsored gay marriage. Then again, I don't support State Sponsored Hetro marriage. It's a private and religious commitment. Let's keep it that way (along with any contracts the couple wish to enter into together which the State can enforce like any other contract if need be).


    Obviously, I support guns
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I don't support State Sponsored gay marriage. Then again, I don't support State Sponsored Hetro marriage. It's a private and religious commitment. Let's keep it that way (along with any contracts the couple wish to enter into together which the State can enforce like any other contract if need be).


    Obviously, I support guns
    Thanks for your views on gay marriage. I posted the study as it relates to gun views. Did you read the study? It's more about guns and minorities views on guns and gun control. You can skip over the gay marriage parts.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I don't support State Sponsored gay marriage. Then again, I don't support State Sponsored Hetro marriage. It's a private and religious commitment. Let's keep it that way (along with any contracts the couple wish to enter into together which the State can enforce like any other contract if need be).


    Obviously, I support guns
    The question in the paper is about legal recognition of marriage contracts between same-sex folks, not state sponsorship of the contracts. The question in the paper is "Allow gays and lesbians to marry legally?" So, I'm with you that the state recognize and enforce these marriage contracts (but not sponsor them), because that's one purpose of the state . . . to provide institutions to adjudicate disputes between people who have entered into contracts with each other. As a libertarian, I see individuals as free to form contracts between themselves and call those contracts whatever the hell pleases them . . . and the state's role is kept to the minimum required to keep the peace: adjudicate contractual disputes.

    A lot of people get into a tizzy on mere semantics. One side wants the state to use the word "marriage" and the other side wants it called "civil union" or not called or recognized as anything at all. Both miss the point that the state's proper role is not to be the official "dispenser of labels" but merely to adjudicate contracts between free men (pun intended, but also using the noun in its general sense).

    And, I support guns, too.
    Last edited by DanM; 05-10-2012 at 08:23 AM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    I support personal freedoms and wish the government would too.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Guns: Good

    Gay Marriage: Bad




    It really is that easy.
    Last edited by Super Trucker; 05-09-2012 at 02:14 PM.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    forgive the observation but a non-peer reviewed document and it's self serving opinion called 'research' isn't worth the paper it was written on.

    from the pew's website about their research methodology:

    Quote: We employ only those tools and methods of analysis that, in our professional judgment, are well suited to the research question at hand. unquote.

    which basically means we find information that fits our biased perspective!! sorry not how research is accomplished per se...

    wabbit

    ps: as my late father used to state...do not discuss topics of politics, religion, let alone gay marriage in public...
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 05-09-2012 at 03:03 PM.
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I see nothing wrong with either.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I see nothing wrong with either.
    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Rules violation
    Last edited by John Pierce; 05-21-2012 at 11:03 PM.

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    I don't think this thread is gonna end well if we start talkin gay marriage. We barely agree on gun rights and 2A. Don't care to know which way people on here swing.

  11. #11
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    I was hoping people would dwell on the gun part and ignore the gay stuff, but I should have known.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    I was hoping people would dwell on the gun part and ignore the gay stuff, but I should have known.
    If there is one thing I have learned about our group over the last couple of years, is that we tend to be selective readers, picking and choosing what we like in a post/news article etc & simply tossing the other info. I too am guilty of this. What we might want to think about is two fold. We are considered the fringe element, not the other way around. If you ever hope to sway others to your side who are on the fence, you should at minimum try to rationally address the opposing sides views point for point, in a calm & fair manner. The high road people that is where we will win this war on our CIVIL rights.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 05-09-2012 at 10:53 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Guns: Good

    Gay Marriage: Bad
    A lot of people would swap those assessments. It's a good thing, then, that we live in a republic instead of a democracy. Democracies sometimes produce "tyranny by the majority". Republics protect individual rights from that. And we all have the individual right to consensually enter into any contract with other individuals. The contract participants can call that contract whatever they want . . . who the hell cares? The state--if it purports to be the arbiter that "keeps the peace"--is there to adjudicate contract disputes.

    That is liberty.

    Guns: Good

    Gay Marriage: just a label for a particular type of contract between consenting adults. I don't care what other people label their contracts. Not my business.


    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    I don't think this thread is gonna end well if . . .
    I think if you are among the folks here who are able to express themselves in a civil manner, you have nothing to worry about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    I was hoping people would dwell on the gun part and ignore the gay stuff, but I should have known.
    Brian, for perhaps many of us, just under the surface of our personal conviction about fighting for gun rights, is a two-fold question: "Is this my only individual liberty issue, or am I a fighter for general individual liberty? If the latter, is there a limit?"

    Any thread that includes "X"-rights along with gun-rights may very well provoke those questions and more discussion of "X"-rights than anything else.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I don't support State Sponsored gay marriage. Then again, I don't support State Sponsored Hetro marriage. It's a private and religious commitment. Let's keep it that way (along with any contracts the couple wish to enter into together which the State can enforce like any other contract if need be).


    Obviously, I support guns
    The article, in a round about way, basically states that people are more aware of how our government is impedeing on our lives.

    The increased support for guns doesnt surprise me. As states, like Michigan, are making it more common practice for a citizen to carry. I see more and more citizen support for it and less and less governmental support. That combination can be volatile. Hopefully the .gov will realize its errors before its too late.


    Marriage is not a religious contract. It is only so when the joining parties wish it to be. Yeah, most marriages take place in a church, but that does not mean that Jesus invented marriage. It only means that the two people who are being joined believe that there is a higher power that will support their decision. The bible is not the law. The bible does not have authority over the Consititution. Yeah yeah. I know what it says about God in there.

    I often find myself wondering how people who support our rights as free americans believe that other people can tell people how to live there lives, and who they can marry and when.

    Gay marriage will go the way of womens rights and black rights. It will become common place in this Free Nation. Those are the key words here......Free....Nation.

    Anywho, no more soapbox for me.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    A lot of people would swap those assessments. It's a good thing, then, that we live in a republic instead of a democracy. Democracies sometimes produce "tyranny by the majority". Republics protect individual rights from that. And we all have the individual right to consensually enter into any contract with other individuals. The contract participants can call that contract whatever they want . . . who the hell cares? The state--if it purports to be the arbiter that "keeps the peace"--is there to adjudicate contract disputes.

    That is liberty.

    Guns: Good

    Gay Marriage: just a label for a particular type of contract between consenting adults. I don't care what other people label their contracts. Not my business.




    I think if you are among the folks here who are able to express themselves in a civil manner, you have nothing to worry about.



    Brian, for perhaps many of us, just under the surface of our personal conviction about fighting for gun rights, is a two-fold question: "Is this my only individual liberty issue, or am I a fighter for general individual liberty? If the latter, is there a limit?"

    Any thread that includes "X"-rights along with gun-rights may very well provoke those questions and more discussion of "X"-rights than anything else.
    I feel that when i am standing my ground, i do so with the knowledge that every time i do so, its a battle won for all.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  16. #16
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    A

    Brian, for perhaps many of us, just under the surface of our personal conviction about fighting for gun rights, is a two-fold question: "Is this my only individual liberty issue, or am I a fighter for general individual liberty? If the latter, is there a limit?"

    Any thread that includes "X"-rights along with gun-rights may very well provoke those questions and more discussion of "X"-rights than anything else.
    I concur, as I mentioned above. All personal rights are important and freedom above all. Since this is a gun forum, I was hoping for the emphases to be on the gun portion. I have no problem with gay marriage.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    The article, in a round about way, basically states that people are more aware of how our government is impedeing on our lives.

    The increased support for guns doesnt surprise me. As states, like Michigan, are making it more common practice for a citizen to carry. I see more and more citizen support for it and less and less governmental support. That combination can be volatile. Hopefully the .gov will realize its errors before its too late.


    Marriage is not a religious contract. It is only so when the joining parties wish it to be. Yeah, most marriages take place in a church, but that does not mean that Jesus invented marriage. It only means that the two people who are being joined believe that there is a higher power that will support their decision. The bible is not the law. The bible does not have authority over the Consititution. Yeah yeah. I know what it says about God in there.

    I often find myself wondering how people who support our rights as free americans believe that other people can tell people how to live there lives, and who they can marry and when.

    Gay marriage will go the way of womens rights and black rights. It will become common place in this Free Nation. Those are the key words here......Free....Nation.

    Anywho, no more soapbox for me.
    I couldn't agree more. 1100+ federal benefits are given to married couples. Gay couples should be able to marry and get those benefits, too.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    My point was -- I don't need a government stamp on my contract with the guy down the road to mow my lawn. Why is marriage different? Why does it need government standards/approval?

    Let people contract with each other how they wish, call it whatever they wish, and keep government out of it.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    My point was -- I don't need a government stamp on my contract with the guy down the road to mow my lawn. Why is marriage different? Why does it need government standards/approval?

    Let people contract with each other how they wish, call it whatever they wish, and keep government out of it.
    +1000
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    I am now convinced that King Obummer will win in November.
    Nothing is sacred anymore. The founders of this country must be rolling over in their graves.



    Thankfully a few people had morals when this topic was voted on a few years ago. I guess that will soon change as well.

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Thankfully a few people had morals when this topic was voted on a few years ago. I guess that will soon change as well.
    I find that "morals" are much like "ethics" in the fact that they are both "situational" in nature. Which is more "moral", following a religious definition or abiding by the rule of respect for individual freedoms? Many would (and have) argued that carrying a device created to kill is an immoral act as it violates "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Not the best example but the best I can come up with after being up almost 24 hours. Guess what I am getting at is just because someone doesn't believe what you believe doesn't make their belief any less valid.

    "Everyone's pain is valid to themselves"
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  22. #22
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Marriage is a religious thing, the government does not need to be involved, they already involved, or trying to be involved in to much of our private lives. The reason you find the gay crowd crying for "state sanctioned" same sex marriage is for the potential government benifits and social acceptance. IMHO, the state should get out of the marriage business completely and leave it to the church if someone wants to marry.

    This poll is like any other. It is designed to be run on a computer, independent variables are not allowed. Like political party, are you a Dem or Rep? No? then you must be independent, so do you lean Dem or Rep...Hej, I'm a libertarian, no I do not lean to eitehr side, OK? That always gets them...they have no cute little bucket to put me in.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Marriage is a religious thing, the government does not need to be involved, they already involved, or trying to be involved in to much of our private lives. The reason you find the gay crowd crying for "state sanctioned" same sex marriage is for the potential government benifits and social acceptance. IMHO, the state should get out of the marriage business completely and leave it to the church if someone wants to marry.

    This poll is like any other. It is designed to be run on a computer, independent variables are not allowed. Like political party, are you a Dem or Rep? No? then you must be independent, so do you lean Dem or Rep...Hej, I'm a libertarian, no I do not lean to eitehr side, OK? That always gets them...they have no cute little bucket to put me in.
    I disagree, I think it is a form of contract. If it were a religious thing Judges and Captains of ships could not marry two people. Love is love, and no one should be treated less fairly because of their beliefs. If you want to argue the religious side of this, go for it. I can quote many scriptures that advocate prostituting one's daughter, stoning adulteress's, and many others. Those rules are archaic and obsolete, but lets keep marriage a "religious" issue because some don't agree. Well Some do not agree with people owning and carrying guns. What makes your Belief on marriage any more valid than their belief on gun ownership and carrying? And please do not cite the 2nd amendment unless you can cite another one that says marriage is a religious issue and only between man and woman.

    Bottom line, either you respect all peoples rights as laid down by constitutional law or you are a hypocrite picking and choosing what you will "accept"
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  24. #24
    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Bottom line, either you respect all peoples rights as laid down by constitutional law or you are a hypocrite picking and choosing what you will "accept"
    What amendment protects gay marriage? The gay marriage thread needs to be locked down.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    What amendment protects gay marriage?
    What amendment rules against it?

    Back OT as to the gun portion of the study. I think with the steadily rising crime rate and gutting of police departments across the country, it is not surprising to see more and more people for carrying a gun for protection as it is increasingly clear no one else will protect you.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

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