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STUDY finds: More Support for Gun Rights, Gay Marriage than in 2008, 2004

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
I don't support State Sponsored gay marriage. Then again, I don't support State Sponsored Hetro marriage. It's a private and religious commitment. Let's keep it that way (along with any contracts the couple wish to enter into together which the State can enforce like any other contract if need be).


Obviously, I support guns :)
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
I don't support State Sponsored gay marriage. Then again, I don't support State Sponsored Hetro marriage. It's a private and religious commitment. Let's keep it that way (along with any contracts the couple wish to enter into together which the State can enforce like any other contract if need be).


Obviously, I support guns :)

Thanks for your views on gay marriage. I posted the study as it relates to gun views. Did you read the study? It's more about guns and minorities views on guns and gun control. You can skip over the gay marriage parts.
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
I don't support State Sponsored gay marriage. Then again, I don't support State Sponsored Hetro marriage. It's a private and religious commitment. Let's keep it that way (along with any contracts the couple wish to enter into together which the State can enforce like any other contract if need be).


Obviously, I support guns :)

The question in the paper is about legal recognition of marriage contracts between same-sex folks, not state sponsorship of the contracts. The question in the paper is "Allow gays and lesbians to marry legally?" So, I'm with you that the state recognize and enforce these marriage contracts (but not sponsor them), because that's one purpose of the state . . . to provide institutions to adjudicate disputes between people who have entered into contracts with each other. As a libertarian, I see individuals as free to form contracts between themselves and call those contracts whatever the hell pleases them . . . and the state's role is kept to the minimum required to keep the peace: adjudicate contractual disputes.

A lot of people get into a tizzy on mere semantics. One side wants the state to use the word "marriage" and the other side wants it called "civil union" or not called or recognized as anything at all. Both miss the point that the state's proper role is not to be the official "dispenser of labels" but merely to adjudicate contracts between free men (pun intended, but also using the noun in its general sense).

And, I support guns, too. :D
 
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Super Trucker

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
263
Location
Wayne County, MI.
Jeez.jpg


Guns: Good

Gay Marriage: Bad




It really is that easy.
 
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ncwabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
670
Location
rural religious usa
forgive the observation but a non-peer reviewed document and it's self serving opinion called 'research' isn't worth the paper it was written on.

from the pew's website about their research methodology:

Quote: We employ only those tools and methods of analysis that, in our professional judgment, are well suited to the research question at hand. unquote.

which basically means we find information that fits our biased perspective!! sorry not how research is accomplished per se...

wabbit

ps: as my late father used to state...do not discuss topics of politics, religion, let alone gay marriage in public...
 
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WilDChilD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
286
Location
Dewitt, Michigan, USA
I don't think this thread is gonna end well if we start talkin gay marriage. We barely agree on gun rights and 2A. Don't care to know which way people on here swing.
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
I was hoping people would dwell on the gun part and ignore the gay stuff, but I should have known.

If there is one thing I have learned about our group over the last couple of years, is that we tend to be selective readers, picking and choosing what we like in a post/news article etc & simply tossing the other info. I too am guilty of this. What we might want to think about is two fold. We are considered the fringe element, not the other way around. If you ever hope to sway others to your side who are on the fence, you should at minimum try to rationally address the opposing sides views point for point, in a calm & fair manner. The high road people that is where we will win this war on our CIVIL rights. ;)
 
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DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
Guns: Good

Gay Marriage: Bad

A lot of people would swap those assessments. It's a good thing, then, that we live in a republic instead of a democracy. Democracies sometimes produce "tyranny by the majority". Republics protect individual rights from that. And we all have the individual right to consensually enter into any contract with other individuals. The contract participants can call that contract whatever they want . . . who the hell cares? The state--if it purports to be the arbiter that "keeps the peace"--is there to adjudicate contract disputes.

That is liberty.

Guns: Good

Gay Marriage: just a label for a particular type of contract between consenting adults. I don't care what other people label their contracts. Not my business.


I don't think this thread is gonna end well if . . .

I think if you are among the folks here who are able to express themselves in a civil manner, you have nothing to worry about.

I was hoping people would dwell on the gun part and ignore the gay stuff, but I should have known.

Brian, for perhaps many of us, just under the surface of our personal conviction about fighting for gun rights, is a two-fold question: "Is this my only individual liberty issue, or am I a fighter for general individual liberty? If the latter, is there a limit?"

Any thread that includes "X"-rights along with gun-rights may very well provoke those questions and more discussion of "X"-rights than anything else.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
I don't support State Sponsored gay marriage. Then again, I don't support State Sponsored Hetro marriage. It's a private and religious commitment. Let's keep it that way (along with any contracts the couple wish to enter into together which the State can enforce like any other contract if need be).


Obviously, I support guns :)

The article, in a round about way, basically states that people are more aware of how our government is impedeing on our lives.

The increased support for guns doesnt surprise me. As states, like Michigan, are making it more common practice for a citizen to carry. I see more and more citizen support for it and less and less governmental support. That combination can be volatile. Hopefully the .gov will realize its errors before its too late.


Marriage is not a religious contract. It is only so when the joining parties wish it to be. Yeah, most marriages take place in a church, but that does not mean that Jesus invented marriage. It only means that the two people who are being joined believe that there is a higher power that will support their decision. The bible is not the law. The bible does not have authority over the Consititution. Yeah yeah. I know what it says about God in there.

I often find myself wondering how people who support our rights as free americans believe that other people can tell people how to live there lives, and who they can marry and when.

Gay marriage will go the way of womens rights and black rights. It will become common place in this Free Nation. Those are the key words here......Free....Nation.

Anywho, no more soapbox for me.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
A lot of people would swap those assessments. It's a good thing, then, that we live in a republic instead of a democracy. Democracies sometimes produce "tyranny by the majority". Republics protect individual rights from that. And we all have the individual right to consensually enter into any contract with other individuals. The contract participants can call that contract whatever they want . . . who the hell cares? The state--if it purports to be the arbiter that "keeps the peace"--is there to adjudicate contract disputes.

That is liberty.

Guns: Good

Gay Marriage: just a label for a particular type of contract between consenting adults. I don't care what other people label their contracts. Not my business.




I think if you are among the folks here who are able to express themselves in a civil manner, you have nothing to worry about.



Brian, for perhaps many of us, just under the surface of our personal conviction about fighting for gun rights, is a two-fold question: "Is this my only individual liberty issue, or am I a fighter for general individual liberty? If the latter, is there a limit?"

Any thread that includes "X"-rights along with gun-rights may very well provoke those questions and more discussion of "X"-rights than anything else.

I feel that when i am standing my ground, i do so with the knowledge that every time i do so, its a battle won for all.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
A

Brian, for perhaps many of us, just under the surface of our personal conviction about fighting for gun rights, is a two-fold question: "Is this my only individual liberty issue, or am I a fighter for general individual liberty? If the latter, is there a limit?"

Any thread that includes "X"-rights along with gun-rights may very well provoke those questions and more discussion of "X"-rights than anything else.

I concur, as I mentioned above. All personal rights are important and freedom above all. Since this is a gun forum, I was hoping for the emphases to be on the gun portion. I have no problem with gay marriage.
 

Spirit4earth

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
12
Location
NC
The article, in a round about way, basically states that people are more aware of how our government is impedeing on our lives.

The increased support for guns doesnt surprise me. As states, like Michigan, are making it more common practice for a citizen to carry. I see more and more citizen support for it and less and less governmental support. That combination can be volatile. Hopefully the .gov will realize its errors before its too late.


Marriage is not a religious contract. It is only so when the joining parties wish it to be. Yeah, most marriages take place in a church, but that does not mean that Jesus invented marriage. It only means that the two people who are being joined believe that there is a higher power that will support their decision. The bible is not the law. The bible does not have authority over the Consititution. Yeah yeah. I know what it says about God in there.

I often find myself wondering how people who support our rights as free americans believe that other people can tell people how to live there lives, and who they can marry and when.

Gay marriage will go the way of womens rights and black rights. It will become common place in this Free Nation. Those are the key words here......Free....Nation.

Anywho, no more soapbox for me.

I couldn't agree more. 1100+ federal benefits are given to married couples. Gay couples should be able to marry and get those benefits, too.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
My point was -- I don't need a government stamp on my contract with the guy down the road to mow my lawn. Why is marriage different? Why does it need government standards/approval?

Let people contract with each other how they wish, call it whatever they wish, and keep government out of it.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
My point was -- I don't need a government stamp on my contract with the guy down the road to mow my lawn. Why is marriage different? Why does it need government standards/approval?

Let people contract with each other how they wish, call it whatever they wish, and keep government out of it.

+1000
 

Super Trucker

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
263
Location
Wayne County, MI.
I am now convinced that King Obummer will win in November.
Nothing is sacred anymore. The founders of this country must be rolling over in their graves.



Thankfully a few people had morals when this topic was voted on a few years ago. I guess that will soon change as well.
 
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