Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: After You Shoot: Your gun's hot.

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    why?
    Posts
    432

    After You Shoot: Your gun's hot.

    .
    Last edited by scott58dh; 06-30-2014 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    Don't need to read the book. Call 911, zip your lip, and call your lawyer. Do NOT talk to the police.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  3. #3
    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    297
    The first review is excellent.

    I've been a fan of some of Korwin's other writing, I think he does a decent job of summarizing state laws in other books (considering he's a non-lawyer writing law books). But I believe that "After You Shoot" is a dangerous book to the reader. It is largely based on the premise of "call your lawyer and have HIM call 911." I believe that this could possibly lead to a "clean shoot" being charged as a homicide, because it delays aid to the person shot. I was thinking this throughout the book, and then the lawyers Korwin interviews at the end agreed with my thought and disagreed with Korwin on this, and several other of Korwin's theories.

    Also, when I read his suggestion to carry a CARD in your wallet stating that you want to cooperate but won't talk to police until you talk to a lawyer, I thought "this would seem damn wonky and work against you." And the lawyers Korwin interviews at the end agreed with my thought and disagreed with Korwin on this.

    Korwin says over and over that you should ask to speak to "MY attorney" not "AN attorney." The difference of this wording of one over the other are not the mystical "get out of jail free" "magic words" Korwin seems to imply they are by constantly stressing the wording. And while Korwin's suggestion to pay for an hour with a lawyer up front to suss them out is a good idea, it doesn't really makes them "your" lawyer. Only HIRING a lawyer truly makes them "your" lawyer. And the lawyers Korwin interviews at the end agreed with my thought and disagreed with Korwin on this. Korwin suggested putting down a 10 or 20 grand retainer, which does not even make them YOUR lawyer, until you actually HIRE them. And most people do not have the resources to do this.

    Regarding Korwin's suggestion to ask potential lawyers "If I were in a self-defense shoot, would you call 911 for me?" - I read that and thought "Most lawyers would think 'So, are you planning a homicide and trying to rope me in as cover?'." And someone in the legal profession I talked to agreed on this. And finally, on page 117, Korwin even brings it up!

    Korwin is right that it IS a travesty that 911 calls are released to the press and used in court, and it is time for a change in that. But when you're facing serious possible charges is not the time to start working on changing that. A simple traffic stop may be a good time for activism and flexing your rights. But a self-defense shooting is NOT the time for activism. It's the time to call 911, keep it short and sweet, then shut up until you talk to your lawyer.

    Instead of presenting this as a "how to" book, Korwin should have written it purely as an analysis of current law and a need for changes in the law. That would have made it a "clean" book. Instead he made it into a book of very bad advice that I believe could harm anyone trying to use it as a how-to. And the several lawyers, ex-cops and private investigators he interviews mostly all felt that he was wrong. But Korwin, a non-lawyer, thinks he knows better than them. He also didn't provide a single example of anyone who had done what he suggests and had it turn out well. In fact, he didn't interview ANYONE who had been in a self-defense shoot and been cleared. Which makes him pretty much a theorist.

    As for the writing: there were several places in the book where Korwin was lazy with quote marks and indentation and I could not tell if he was quoting this person, that person or himself. The book could have used a pass by an editor to rectify this.

    I almost NEVER write bad reviews of books. I know what it takes to write a book and if a book is simply not good, I just ignore it. But I'm making the exception here because I believe this book is DANGEROUS to the reader.

    Korwin should stick to activism and summarizing existing laws rather than endangering people by suggesting needed changes in laws as what they should actually try when they may be facing life in prison or a lethal injection.

    --Michael Dean

  4. #4
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    In one of the classes I attended last year, the instructor recommended that when you call 911, don't ask for the police. Ask for an ambulance. Tell the operator that there has been a shooting and could they send an ambulance. Obviously when they hear the word "shooting" they are going to dispatch the police as well. The instructor indicated that this could work in your favor and as a side note, he is a regular poster on these forums.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  5. #5
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    N.W. Pa.
    Posts
    406
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    In one of the classes I attended last year, the instructor recommended that when you call 911, don't ask for the police. Ask for an ambulance. Tell the operator that there has been a shooting and could they send an ambulance. Obviously when they hear the word "shooting" they are going to dispatch the police as well. The instructor indicated that this could work in your favor and as a side note, he is a regular poster on these forums.
    Thanks for the advice. But I'm curious, in what way does (could) it work in your favor? ( not saying it does'nt, just want to be more informed )
    watch your top knot !

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    Thanks for the advice. But I'm curious, in what way does (could) it work in your favor? ( not saying it does'nt, just want to be more informed )
    It shows that you have concern for the person you shot. We never shoot to kill, only to stop the threat.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  7. #7
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    It shows that you have concern for the person you shot. We never shoot to kill, only to stop the threat.
    People need to be careful with this, you don't want 'them' thinking you were tampering with evidence either. I would want to help the person, then again, I wouldn't want to be brought up on manslaughter after the fact because I couldn't bring them back, or broke one of their ribs while attempting to resessitating them (it does happen).
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    People need to be careful with this, you don't want 'them' thinking you were tampering with evidence either. I would want to help the person, then again, I wouldn't want to be brought up on manslaughter after the fact because I couldn't bring them back, or broke one of their ribs while attempting to resessitating them (it does happen).
    The OP's question was how does calling an ambulance work in the shooter's favor. No mention was made of trying to resucitate the person shot. Calling an ambulance is in no way "tampering with the evidence." Personally, I would NOT try to revive someone I shot who had just been threatening my life, but that's just me.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    The OP's question was how does calling an ambulance work in the shooter's favor. No mention was made of trying to resucitate the person shot. Calling an ambulance is in no way "tampering with the evidence." Personally, I would NOT try to revive someone I shot who had just been threatening my life, but that's just me.
    But I would definitely call 911 for an ambulance.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    But I would definitely call 911 for an ambulance.
    I love it LOL...quoting your post. I agree that the OP was about dialing 911 and requesting an ambulance. I am wondering if a person who just shot someone would feel inclined to try to help them physically, not just by dialing 911 and requesting an ambulance.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I love it LOL...quoting your post. I agree that the OP was about dialing 911 and requesting an ambulance. I am wondering if a person who just shot someone would feel inclined to try to help them physically, not just by dialing 911 and requesting an ambulance.
    See my post above. To each their own. I think I would be to upset to even go near them.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Don't need to read the book. Call 911, zip your lip, and call your lawyer. Do NOT talk to the police.
    There's a bit more to it than that if you want any chance of not spending a night or three locked in a jail cell. There is no problem telling the cops who you are, or where they might find evidence, or who witnesses are, or which direction any of the accomplices of the shot person left the scene and what they looked like. It also is not problematic to tell the cops if you have any physical injuries, or if you have underlying physical conditions that require medical attention due to the stress you are experiencing. This includes diabetics who need to test their blood glucose levels and may need insulin, those with cardiac illnesses who may need treatment, and the like. It may not be the best thing to do to tell the cops you are excited, or confused, or are having "the shakes".

    It is difficult to stick to just those basic issues, as opposed to trying to explain or describe what happened. But that's where the cops get all those statements that come back to bite you in the butt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I love it LOL...quoting your post. I agree that the OP was about dialing 911 and requesting an ambulance. I am wondering if a person who just shot someone would feel inclined to try to help them physically, not just by dialing 911 and requesting an ambulance.
    While I might feel inclined to physically help someone that I just shot, I am not qualified and, because I just shot them, I am not protected by Good Samaritan laws. Therefore, I am going to wait for the EMTs.
    Also, my personal prejudices (yes, I have them) are going to kick in. Anybody that tried to kill or seriously injure me probably has other personal habits that would cause them to have conditions I do not want to be exposed to. I'm not going to, for example, make contact with someone else's bodily fluids unless I know them very well - and for some of my relatives doing so would be very risky so merely being related is not enough to get me to touch your icky stuff.

    Also, if the person that I just shot because they tried to kill or seriously injure me is still alive, as far as I'm concerned they still represent a threat. I can reduce/eliminate their ability to carry out actions to harm me by keeping my distance. Getting up close and personal with them just gives them another cxhance to kill/seriously injure me.

    Hope that these thoughts help you decide how you are going to deal with the situation.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    LE does not always have medical attention brought immediately to those that they shoot in self-defense. As skidmark correctly illustrates, just cuz you dropped him does not mean that the threat is at an end. Let LE and EM personnel take care of him, they get paid to do that kind of stuff.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,929
    Korwin is right that it IS a travesty that 911 calls are released to the press and used in court, and it is time for a change in that.
    So both Korwin and Dean think that the Freedom of Information Act should be repealed?

  15. #15
    Guest
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    ,
    Posts
    395
    2A
    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 07:30 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    Skidmark, you are correct about what to tell the police. I agree with you 100%. I was too brief and should have mentioned the things you said. What I really meant was a person shouldn't go into all the details of what happened without consulting one's attorney. I have been told that things will seem different once you calm down; the information you give right after a shooting may not be accurate. As they say, "Anything you say can and will be used against you." I would think that that would be very difficult to do as you naturally will want to talk to someone. I guess the best "someone" would be your attorney.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •