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Thread: Why do 3 King County Council members support illegal aliens?

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    Why do 3 King County Council members support illegal aliens?

    The Seattle Times reported Wednesday that three members of the King County Council want to protect people in this country illegally from being found out by Immigration and Customs Enforcement in the event they are booked into the King County jail for investigation of crimes.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/why-...illegal-aliens

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    Stupid is as stupid does.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Question

    Is this thread open carry related, or was it created simply to boost page views?
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Is this thread open carry related, or was it created simply to boost page views?
    I think that he was trying to see if your 'best friend' was going to read this..
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I think that he was trying to see if your 'best friend' was going to read this..
    ???
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    ???
    /sarcasm.

    Is that what I forgot?

    You know your best friend "BL92"

    It was total sarcasm.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The article does deal with firearms and is in Washington state Dave has been good about that.

    My personal feelings is that fundamental rights belong to all humans regardless of their "legal" status.

    I have changed my stance on immigration over the years, and feel instead of focusing on people who travel to better their lives, we need to focus on the problems the government causes. I am finding it more and more difficult to label someone "illegal" for simply exercising a fundamental right of travel without government permission.

    I do realize though that it is one of the powers of the Federal Government to protect its borders.

    A good read is Omnipotent Government by Ludwig VonMises.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The article does deal with firearms and is in Washington state Dave has been good about that.

    My personal feelings is that fundamental rights belong to all humans regardless of their "legal" status.

    I have changed my stance on immigration over the years, and feel instead of focusing on people who travel to better their lives, we need to focus on the problems the government causes. I am finding it more and more difficult to label someone "illegal" for simply exercising a fundamental right of travel without government permission.

    I do realize though that it is one of the powers of the Federal Government to protect its borders.

    A good read is Omnipotent Government by Ludwig VonMises.
    I agree we should get rid of any licensing requirement to use an automobile on the public roads.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Maybe because they took this part of Kent v. Dulles to heart?

    The right to travel is a part of the "liberty" of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. So much is conceded by the Solicitor General. In Anglo-Saxon law that right was emerging at least as early as the Magna Carta. 12 Chafee, [357 U.S. 116, 126] Three Human Rights in the Constitution of 1787 (1956), 171-181, 187 et seq., shows how deeply engrained in our history this freedom of movement is. Freedom of movement across frontiers in either direction, and inside frontiers as well, was a part of our heritage. Travel abroad, like travel within the country, may be necessary for a livelihood. It may be as close to the heart of the individual as the choice of what he eats, or wears, or reads. Freedom of movement is basic in our scheme of values. See Crandall v. Nevada, 6 Wall. 35, 44; Williams v. Fears, 179 U.S. 270, 274 ; Edwards v. California, 314 U.S. 160 . "Our nation," wrote Chafee, "has thrived on the principle that, outside areas of plainly harmful conduct, every American is left to shape his own life as he thinks best, do what he pleases, go where he pleases." Id., at 197.
    They then said "hm, the 14th amendment says that no state shall 'deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law', and since these people trying to travel here because it may be necessary for their livelihood, any deprivation of that liberty without due process of law violates the equal protection of that person."

    Or it's because they're dirty liberals. Your choice.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The article does deal with firearms and is in Washington state Dave has been good about that.

    My personal feelings is that fundamental rights belong to all humans regardless of their "legal" status.

    I have changed my stance on immigration over the years, and feel instead of focusing on people who travel to better their lives, we need to focus on the problems the government causes. I am finding it more and more difficult to label someone "illegal" for simply exercising a fundamental right of travel without government permission.

    I do realize though that it is one of the powers of the Federal Government to protect its borders.

    A good read is Omnipotent Government by Ludwig VonMises.

    Of course, the human right to travel wherever one wants is a reasonable argument. And so, too, is the concept that fundamental rights belong to all of us, regardless of nationality or where you happen to be standing on the planet at any given moment.

    What I'm after here, though, is the hypocrisy on the part of government officials who are supposed to uphold the law and the constitution, and in this case, it's hard to argue that they're doing either.
    These @$$clowns want to ignore federal immigration law out of political correctness...but I guarantee that if one of these "undocumented workers" was popped with a trunk load of hardware you would hear a much different whine from this bunch.

    I'm still plugging away at the Fast and Furious debacle that involved people who should not have been in this country, certainly shouldn't have been trafficking in guns, and most assuredly should not have been creeping around the Arizona desert the night of Dec. 14, 2010 taking shots at our Border Patrol guys, and killing one of them.

    Pardon me, but that personally pi$$e$ me off.

    Now, our officials in King County see this as the politically correct thing to do in an appeal to what they believe is a liberal and dependable voting bloc. They're all wet up to their eyebrows, however. They overlook crimes committed, problems created, the drain on our health care and education systems...because of politics.

    It should not be that way.

    We have laws. Some of those laws we don't like, but we obey them until such time as we can change or repeal them, or overturn them in court; the latter being something I'm kind of familiar with .
    But these guys at the county don't obey them. That's not leadership, and it's setting a lousy example. If they don't like a law, they should work to change it instead of just thumbing their nose at it.

    Say one of us runs afoul of a gun law in King County. You think for a nano-second these jerks are going to side with you and say "Oh, it's a lousy law, let's just ignore it." Nope, they'll want to throw the book at you.

    Yet they think it's just peachy to give "sanctuary" to people who are in this country illegally. Some of them committing crimes. With guns...which prompts the hand-wringers in Olympia to cook up ways to ratchet down on OUR gun rights.

    There's a disconnect. It's not on this forum. It's at the King County Council offices and in Olympia.

    And I'm going to rub their faces in it every chance I get.

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    The right to travel is a part of the "liberty" of which the[ citizen] cannot be deprived.

    not an illegal allien can not be deprived. the key word being citizen
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

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    Another good article dave. You will probably find there are more than those that have publically admitted they support illegal aliens, Patty Murray also used Illegal immigrants to canvas areas for support when she was running, and God forbid you ask Rob McKenna for an opinion on Illegal Immigration. We are a sancturary state so this is where alot of them flee to. I like that in light of the federal govt not doing their job that some states are taking the initiative to take matters into their own hands. On those lines as you said we already have laws in place and I dont think states should be making their own laws. Arizona is doing it right, but a libtard state like Mexifornia will just open the front door and hand them a map of I-5. As Mexifornia has taken away the law abiding citizens rights to CC or OC the only ones left that can carry a firearm are the criminals. That is a bad thing esp given the fact that the Mexican gangs outnumber all the white, black and asian gangs combined (not that any gang is a good thing).
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    Of course, the human right to travel wherever one wants is a reasonable argument. And so, too, is the concept that fundamental rights belong to all of us, regardless of nationality or where you happen to be standing on the planet at any given moment.

    What I'm after here, though, is the hypocrisy on the part of government officials who are supposed to uphold the law and the constitution, and in this case, it's hard to argue that they're doing either.
    These @$$clowns want to ignore federal immigration law out of political correctness...but I guarantee that if one of these "undocumented workers" was popped with a trunk load of hardware you would hear a much different whine from this bunch.

    I'm still plugging away at the Fast and Furious debacle that involved people who should not have been in this country, certainly shouldn't have been trafficking in guns, and most assuredly should not have been creeping around the Arizona desert the night of Dec. 14, 2010 taking shots at our Border Patrol guys, and killing one of them.

    Pardon me, but that personally pi$$e$ me off.

    Now, our officials in King County see this as the politically correct thing to do in an appeal to what they believe is a liberal and dependable voting bloc. They're all wet up to their eyebrows, however. They overlook crimes committed, problems created, the drain on our health care and education systems...because of politics.

    It should not be that way.

    We have laws. Some of those laws we don't like, but we obey them until such time as we can change or repeal them, or overturn them in court; the latter being something I'm kind of familiar with .
    But these guys at the county don't obey them. That's not leadership, and it's setting a lousy example. If they don't like a law, they should work to change it instead of just thumbing their nose at it.

    Say one of us runs afoul of a gun law in King County. You think for a nano-second these jerks are going to side with you and say "Oh, it's a lousy law, let's just ignore it." Nope, they'll want to throw the book at you.

    Yet they think it's just peachy to give "sanctuary" to people who are in this country illegally. Some of them committing crimes. With guns...which prompts the hand-wringers in Olympia to cook up ways to ratchet down on OUR gun rights.

    There's a disconnect. It's not on this forum. It's at the King County Council offices and in Olympia.

    And I'm going to rub their faces in it every chance I get.

    Good points Dave, I hope you didn't take my post as an attack on your article, it was just an addition of my viewpoint.

    I think we are both on board that it is the Gov that is the problem here, we just look at it at slightly different angles.

    And I'm going to rub their faces in it every chance I get.
    I can appreciate this!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Is this thread open carry related, or was it created simply to boost page views?
    Did you really care or was that post simply typed to boost post counts??

    HMMM.....

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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman
    Of course, the human right to travel wherever one wants is a reasonable argument. And so, too, is the concept that fundamental rights belong to all of us, regardless of nationality or where you happen to be standing on the planet at any given moment.

    ~~ snip ~~ Now, our officials in King County see this as the politically correct thing to do in an appeal to what they believe is a liberal and dependable voting bloc. They're all wet up to their eyebrows, however. They overlook crimes committed, problems created, the drain on our health care and education systems...because of politics.

    It should not be that way.

    We have laws. Some of those laws we don't like, but we obey them until such time as we can change or repeal them, or overturn them in court; the latter being something I'm kind of familiar with .
    But these guys at the county don't obey them. That's not leadership, and it's setting a lousy example. If they don't like a law, they should work to change it instead of just thumbing their nose at it.

    Say one of us runs afoul of a gun law in King County. You think for a nano-second these jerks are going to side with you and say "Oh, it's a lousy law, let's just ignore it." Nope, they'll want to throw the book at you.

    Yet they think it's just peachy to give "sanctuary" to people who are in this country illegally. Some of them committing crimes. With guns...which prompts the hand-wringers in Olympia to cook up ways to ratchet down on OUR gun rights.

    There's a disconnect. It's not on this forum. It's at the King County Council offices and in Olympia.

    And I'm going to rub their faces in it every chance I get.
    Good points Dave, I hope you didn't take my post as an attack on your article, it was just an addition of my viewpoint.

    I think we are both on board that it is the Gov that is the problem here, we just look at it at slightly different angles.

    I can appreciate this!
    I agree that as a Citizen we have a Right to Travel anywhere within our Nation that we wish un-impeded and without many of the restrictive laws that are in place. That is another discussion for a much different forum than this one.

    I also agree with Dave that the Legal/Illegal Immigration debate could cause conflict with our RTKBA and the initial fault to be found, is clearly with our Government Officials (GO)and their agendas in not wanting to or failing to uphold the Immigration Laws as established by Congress.

    I for one have no problem with Immigrants becoming Citizens, as that is what our Great Country is all about.. I do however have a problem with those who attempt to circumvent (for whatever the reason) those Laws to become a Legal Immigrant and a rightful Citizen of our Country!

    If I had the chance to really talk to our GO.. I would have to ask, What about the word illegal is it that our GO do not equate with a Criminal act? And by their supporting the circumvention of the Laws of our Nation by those who are illegally here, do they not see makes themselves Criminal Friendly and in violation of their Oaths of Office?
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911er View Post
    The right to travel is a part of the "liberty" of which the[ citizen] cannot be deprived.

    not an illegal allien can not be deprived. the key word being citizen
    Are you incapable of reading? What part of "any person" is unclear in the 14th amendment? The part where scary brown people might come here and steal yer jerbs? :P
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Are you incapable of reading? What part of "any person" is unclear in the 14th amendment? The part where scary brown people might come here and steal yer jerbs? :P
    I understand why people get frustrated, I used to when trying to make a living and having to compete with others who don't have to follow the rules it had nothing to do with skin color. The more I thought about it though the more I realized it isn't the peoples fault, I would probably do the same thing if I was in their shoes. It is the governments (both ours and theirs regardless of which country they originate from) fault and like so many other laws, these laws do nothing to protect those it was supposed to protect but actually did more harm than good.

    E.G. I have seen L&I fine a contractor who was licensed but not even go near the immigrant folks working a few houses down, they know they can track and get the extorted money from the "legal" contractor fairly easily, while they would fruitlessly spend countless hrs and wasted energy going after the "illegals". If FDR's packed SCOTUS court and threats to pack it more didn't happen we would have a court more in line with the Lochner era, where individuals had the right to contract without gov. influence contractors and employers could compete with "illegals" and the issue wouldn't be as skewed as they make it today.

    Ludwig VonMises in his book Omnipotent Government, explains these things on a much more cerebral level than my oversimplification. One thing he does make real clear is how Gov. backed protectionism had a lot to do with and causes a lot of War.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I understand why people get frustrated, I used to when trying to make a living and having to compete with others who don't have to follow the rules it had nothing to do with skin color. The more I thought about it though the more I realized it isn't the peoples fault, I would probably do the same thing if I was in their shoes. It is the governments (both ours and theirs regardless of which country they originate from) fault and like so many other laws, these laws do nothing to protect those it was supposed to protect but actually did more harm than good.

    E.G. I have seen L&I fine a contractor who was licensed but not even go near the immigrant folks working a few houses down, they know they can track and get the extorted money from the "legal" contractor fairly easily, while they would fruitlessly spend countless hrs and wasted energy going after the "illegals". If FDR's packed SCOTUS court and threats to pack it more didn't happen we would have a court more in line with the Lochner era, where individuals had the right to contract without gov. influence contractors and employers could compete with "illegals" and the issue wouldn't be as skewed as they make it today.

    Ludwig VonMises in his book Omnipotent Government, explains these things on a much more cerebral level than my oversimplification. One thing he does make real clear is how Gov. backed protectionism had a lot to do with and causes a lot of War.
    You're going to have to loan me your book collection sometime.
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    All this talk, and some of it two-faced in my opinion. You do know that we are denied the right to some parts of the US thanks to it being put off limits by the Feds due to how dangerous it is because of all the illegals some of you support coming through the area. So which is it? We should be able to travel, or they should be able to deprive us of our rights to our land by making it too dangerous for us? And how come I see northern states, who don't have the problems the lower ones do, trying to tell the lower ones to suck it up and enjoy their problems?

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    Because they're America hating Communists! That's why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mohawk001 View Post
    All this talk, and some of it two-faced in my opinion. You do know that we are denied the right to some parts of the US thanks to it being put off limits by the Feds due to how dangerous it is because of all the illegals some of you support coming through the area. So which is it? We should be able to travel, or they should be able to deprive us of our rights to our land by making it too dangerous for us? And how come I see northern states, who don't have the problems the lower ones do, trying to tell the lower ones to suck it up and enjoy their problems?
    Where do you get the idea I would support shutting those lands? Of course you have the right to travel there. You do realize, though, that the only reason it's dangerous is because we've made a system where it's profitable for coyotes to smuggle people, and those coyotes feel the need to protect their profits? Seems that if you want to solve that problem, you need to eliminate illegal immigration - that is, make all immigration legal.

    As for northern states... I come from the Coachella Valley. I know what the southland is like.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Where do you get the idea I would support shutting those lands? Of course you have the right to travel there. You do realize, though, that the only reason it's dangerous is because we've made a system where it's profitable for coyotes to smuggle people, and those coyotes feel the need to protect their profits? Seems that if you want to solve that problem, you need to eliminate illegal immigration - that is, make all immigration legal.

    As for northern states... I come from the Coachella Valley. I know what the southland is like.
    So to get rid of the drinking and driving problems, make it legal. To get rid of the murder problems, make killing people legal. To get rid of..........

    And until you've seen the signs that the Feds have put up saying for U.S. citizens to stay out, how can you say it's ok to go in there? The right has been taken away.

    Giving in to the problem is not the way to fix the problem. I still say it's obvious you have no clue about what it's like down here just literally a couple of miles from the border.

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    Here in Washington state, illegal immigration is a major ecological problem. Salal pickers will go into an area and absolutely devastate the area. They poach everything and sell birds of prey and rare species to the black market. They kill squirrels as vermin. Occasionally they start wild fires. In the process of picking, they tear up all the vegetation and damage trees. Unfortunately, they are doing this in every area that isn't regularly policed, including the state and national parks.

    Much of the area's illegal drug traffic and distribution is done by illegal immigrants, both those who don't have other opportunities and those who come specifically for it.

    Many companies in the area refuse to hire legal residents in favor or illegals to avoid paying taxes and benefits. Also, they start small labor based businesses that don't get licensing, don't follow code, and don't pay taxes.

    All of these things involve extremely violent enforcers that lash out at anyone that poses a threat, including innocent people that accidentally stumble on their activities.

    Overall, the illegal immigrant community involves itself in outlaw behavior. Aside from the illegal act of crossing the border, identity theft and fraud is done as a matter of course to maintain their presence. Petty theft is so frequent that security items like alarms and padlock sales run 30-50% higher in areas with high concentrations of illegal immigrants.

    All of this leads to the security of LACs plummeting. Something needs to be done to address the problem.
    What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911er View Post
    The right to travel is a part of the "liberty" of which the[ citizen] cannot be deprived.

    not an illegal allien can not be deprived. the key word being citizen
    ...and this "Our nation," wrote Chafee, "has thrived on the principle that, outside areas of plainly harmful conduct, every American is left to shape his own life as he thinks best, do what he pleases, go where he pleases." Id., at 197.

    Would that then be "American citizen" ...in context?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    ...and this "Our nation," wrote Chafee, "has thrived on the principle that, outside areas of plainly harmful conduct, every American is left to shape his own life as he thinks best, do what he pleases, go where he pleases." Id., at 197.

    Would that then be "American citizen" ...in context?
    And which of the Chafee's do you quote? John, Lincoln, Edmond B. or Zechariah Chaffee, Jr.?

    Speaking of Zechariah Jr. Here is one..
    "The real value of freedom is not to the minority that wants to talk but to the majority that does not want to listen."
    Last edited by LkWd_Don; 05-14-2012 at 04:25 PM.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement. The faults of a few, reflect badly on many, I therefore do not suggest anyone support WAC. My EDC is either a H&K USP .40 or a Taurus 689 .357 filled with Snake Loads

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