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Thread: Question regarding post office related carry

  1. #1
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    Question regarding post office related carry

    I can see the debate on firearms and post offices has been done to death, the law states you can't carry in a post office.

    What about a store that also serves as a post office? Most large grocery/department stores also have post services at the customer service desks.

    There have been stories of robberies going from local law to federal law just because the store also offered post services. Does this extend to carrying?

  2. #2
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    I lock my gun in the car and dont even park on the post office property. I know im safe that way.I have a PO box and one at the end of my drive. I have waited at the mail box when I saw her coming up the road, and never got mail that day. Dont know if she by-passed me or I didnt have mail,LOL

    Not much info.in this post but thier is people who know much moreabout this than myself.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

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    Well safe as far as not getting in hot water with the law.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

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    A store that also contains a PO is not off limits. You can even approach the PO counter. You can not cross over into the PO leased area.
    States don’t have rights. People do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eamelhorn View Post
    Well safe as far as not getting in hot water with the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    A store that also contains a PO is not off limits. You can even approach the PO counter. You can not cross over into the PO leased area.
    Thank you for understanding the question.

    Another question, if I could. Banks in Ohio, not off limits, correct?
    Last edited by Noel Avenelle; 05-11-2012 at 09:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Avenelle View Post
    Thank you for understanding the question.

    Another question, if I could. Banks in Ohio, not off limits, correct?
    Correct.
    States don’t have rights. People do.

  7. #7
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    I just stopped going to the US Post office. I go to a pac-mail outlet that does all the same services (plus ups and the others) and I do not have to disarm. Can't carry a weapon here,I don't shop here. Walk your money to those who support you!
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Well, since this topic is semi recent, I would like to add a question to the post office carry.

    I have to go to the post office for work 2 or 3 days a week. Every time I go, I see a "robbery of a postal employee..." sign on the front door, pass by that then I am in the area which contains the PO Boxes. If I turn left, it is just PO Boxes, if I turn right, then there's another door that has the "No weapons" sign that leads to the counters where you actually talk to people.

    Now, since the "No weapons" sign is only to the area that employees are at, does that allow the Carry to the PO Box section if I am not intending to rob a postal employee (to follow the only sign regarding restrictions that I have passed)? Currently I'm not carrying since my Employer doesn't allow carrying on company business and I don't want to risk breaking that federal law...


    I figured I'd add the law that my question is regarding so not everyone has to go looking for it.
    18 USC § 930 - POSSESSION OF FIREARMS AND DANGEROUS WEAPONS IN FEDERAL FACILITIES

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
    (e)
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
    (f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
    (g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
    (2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
    (3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 05-20-2012 at 07:55 PM.
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    Wouldn't para d.3 "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." exempt you?? Isn't carrying for self defense (exercising 2a rights) a lawful activity? Whether it be in a courthouse (No permanent metal detection equipment installed) or a post office counter?

    I read para a. as pertaining to someone carrying a weapon for the intent of a non-lawful activity. (Like the sign would stop that anyway).

    How far off base am I here?

  10. #10
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    Jakk

    I found this;

    #5 Question: Can I legally carry in the Post Office?
    Answer: No CFR Conduct on Federal Property
    Title 39 - Postal Service
    Chapter I - United States Postal Service
    Subchapter D - Organization and Administration
    Part 232 - Conduct on Postal Property
    232.1 - Conduct on Postal Property.
    Paragraph L
    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

    Answered my own question, and possibly yours.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetreezj View Post
    Wouldn't para d.3 "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." exempt you?? Isn't carrying for self defense (exercising 2a rights) a lawful activity? Whether it be in a courthouse (No permanent metal detection equipment installed) or a post office counter?

    I read para a. as pertaining to someone carrying a weapon for the intent of a non-lawful activity. (Like the sign would stop that anyway).

    How far off base am I here?
    I say you absolutely correct.........as long as there are no other conflicting statutes anywhere else. Regardless you'd still be arrested so "the court can decide if you've broken the law" because "everybody knows you can't take a gun into a post office" because everybody has been told that all their lives so it must be true.

  12. #12
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    The USPS has signs, supposedly conspicuously placed, that cite 18 USC § 930 as the authority for prohibiting carrying therein.

    However, I remember reading somewhere that 18 USC § 930 itself does not apply to USPS facilities. Other government locations, yes, but not USPS locations. Acording to the GPO's Parallel Table of Authorities and Rules, 27 CFR 478 (Commerce in Firearms and Ammuntion) is the only part of the CFR for which this US Code section provides rulemaking authority. The authority for 39 CFR 232 (Conduct on Postal Property) is 18 USC §§ 13, 3061 & 3571; 21 USC §§ 802 & 844; and 39 USC §§ 401, 403(b)(3), 404(a)(7) & 1201(2).

    Is the Government telling an untruth? 18 USC § 930 only applies to buildings, occupied buildings containing federal employees. Parking lots are not buildings. But they cite 18 USC § 930 on their signage. The Department of Veterans Affairs likewise cites 18 USC § 930 on its signage - as the authority to restrict firearms from its parking lots (and buildings, too, but that's not being argued).

    For an interesting read on the subject, this might help: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Conce...rude-awakening
    Last edited by Statkowski; 08-19-2012 at 11:13 AM.

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