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Greater Richmond OC Breakfast Sat 9:30 AM 5/12/12 - River City Diner Parham Rd & I-95

peter nap

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I wanted advise about the open carry of a firearm. So I asked people who open carry firearms. Seems logical. No lawyer need be involved because im not going to pay someone to read the law to me.

That was an easy cut and dried question but there are lawyers on this site that will jump in when it gets more complicated.
 

mk4

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I wanted advise about the open carry of a firearm. So I asked people who open carry firearms. Seems logical. No lawyer need be involved because im not going to pay someone to read the law to me.

Once again, there is no statutory prohibition against OC or CC in an ABC establishment (restaurant, ABC store, grocery store, etc) in the VA Code. The section I mentioned above, does prohibit consuming while CC in an ABC on-premises establishment (a restaurant).
 

peter nap

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This is off topic for this thread but since I flat refuse to start a new thread about concealed weapons,,,,,here is the LAW Tanner. Read it and you will know it!

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature. such charge is pending or by the court that issued the permit.


J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
 

peter nap

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K MK4 thank you for your answer. I hope you dont feel like im questioning you integrity or credibility because im not. Can you remember how you became privy to this knowledge?

Read what I just posted Tanner!
 

Tanner

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Yes THANK YOU Peter. Weight lifted. I still hate how much jargon they use to describe the law. It could eaisly be misunderstood or misinterpreted. I think I went through your post a dozen times and still have questions to clearify. But i will refrain at the risk of further annoying someone. I truly thank every one for their time. Im hear to learn and learn I shall. Just remember there are no stupid questions just stupid people.
 

Grapeshot

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K MK4 thank you for your answer. I hope you dont feel like im questioning you integrity or credibility because im not. Can you remember how you became privy to this knowledge?

If I may interject - we gained this knowledge because VCDL worked with the legislators and attorneys to get the law so defined. Most here have read the pertinent laws and where there was a question have consulted attorneys who specialize in this area. There are those amongst us that spend a fair amount of time and energy educating LEO's on these points. VCDL has had several meetings with the upper brass of LEA with just this purpose in mind - to educate them and their officers as to what is the application of the law in specific instances.

Now all of that aside, you came to us for information - it has been given and the code section mentioned. Anyone, not just you, is directed to confirm/verify for themselves what the law actually says. The phrase we use is "Trust but verify." I would encourage you to do likewise.

See you Sat. for breakfast - looking forward to meeting you.

BTW - a picture being worth a thousand words, see the photos on post#300 of the below thread - they were taken in a restaurant with an ABC license.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...a-July-OC-Dinner/page12&highlight=fuddruckers

 

Tanner

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Grapeshot that is exactly why I came to a place like this for answers. I trust the opinion of knowledgable people and this site is jam packed with them. MK4 and Peter have given me a more difinitive answer to this question in 1 hour than I have been able to get in two weeks. I admittedly wasent being aggresive in research until now but all the same I appreciate the info.
 

skidmark

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Tanner -

Unless you know how to read the law it can be confusing. Don't feel bad about not getting everything on your first time through the briar patch. One of the things that we seem to "do" around here is help newbies discover what trhey need to know, as opposed to handing them data on a silver platter. For instance, the laws about carrying in places with liquor licences talks about "a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption." Since Kroger and WalMart do not sell booze for on-premises consumption, the restrictions do not apply to them. (That was the lesson - reading what the law actually says, as opposed to what someone thinks it means or ought to mean. The next lesson will be about "case law" - what that is and what it does.)

When you show up please introduce yourself to the guy who looks like Santa with a bad attitude - that'll be me. I'll give you some printed info to point you in the right direction. Stay away from Grapeshot - he's the skinny guy who carries a 1911 for the weight so he does not blow away. (That's 2 inside jokes. Maybe someone will explain them to you.)

It does take showing up for more than one breakfast to become an "insider", but all are welcome so long as they are not against us.

stay safe.
 

va_tazdad

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Don't forget the other Skidmark ID

Tanner -

Unless you know how to read the law it can be confusing. Don't feel bad about not getting everything on your first time through the briar patch. One of the things that we seem to "do" around here is help newbies discover what trhey need to know, as opposed to handing them data on a silver platter. For instance, the laws about carrying in places with liquor licences talks about "a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption." Since Kroger and WalMart do not sell booze for on-premises consumption, the restrictions do not apply to them. (That was the lesson - reading what the law actually says, as opposed to what someone thinks it means or ought to mean. The next lesson will be about "case law" - what that is and what it does.)

When you show up please introduce yourself to the guy who looks like Santa with a bad attitude - that'll be me. I'll give you some printed info to point you in the right direction. Stay away from Grapeshot - he's the skinny guy who carries a 1911 for the weight so he does not blow away. (That's 2 inside jokes. Maybe someone will explain them to you.)

It does take showing up for more than one breakfast to become an "insider", but all are welcome so long as they are not against us.

stay safe.

Tanner, Welcome and do NOT be intimitated by the guy that looks like Santa, he drives a SMV, and his bark is far worse than his bite. (Although he does growl a lot)

This is a wonderful group with a wealth of kbnowledge.

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask!
 

riverrat10k

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Bwaaaaaahahahhahahahahahhahaaaaah

MK4 while I respect everyones inputs, opinions, ideas and what not I have to ask how you know its lawful. Today I called the non emergency number for the local police and the officer I talked to seem certain that it was unlawful to carry both open or conseald at any place with a license to sell or serve liquor. Do realize that I know what one cop says is law isent always the case. Its why I ask questions. and thanks for your time.

Asking a cop for a legal ruling! Funniest thing I ever heard of! Police often don't even know the laws and often lie to citizens!

Just a reminder, anything not expressly illegal is legal. No law against carrying where alcohol is seved or sold. I open carry at the liquor store!

Back on topic: I may show up or may go see the female parental unit. Haven't decided yet.
 
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Tanner

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glad you got a chuckle out of it. Im new to the idea of OC. My logic by asking a cop was simple. I dont care what the law says I care what a cop will do with his understanding of the law. Case in point the guy i talked to seem positive that it was illegal to carry on a ABC licensed property. Right or wrong im not going to pick fights with a cop who probably has a skewed view of the power, privlige, or whatever you want to call it that alot of cops have.
 

peter nap

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glad you got a chuckle out of it. Im new to the idea of OC. My logic by asking a cop was simple. I dont care what the law says I care what a cop will do with his understanding of the law. Case in point the guy i talked to seem positive that it was illegal to carry on a ABC licensed property. Right or wrong im not going to pick fights with a cop who probably has a skewed view of the power, privlige, or whatever you want to call it that alot of cops have.

This is a breakfast thread Tanner. Let's go back on topic, besides you've dragged the official word from the cop out long enough. It's getting old. You have a copy of the applicable law, the legislative bill, news links and you're old enough to make up your own mind. I doubt Moses will present you with a Stone Tablet With "It's Legal" inscribed.

faucet_off_l.gif


Either start a new thread or wait until Saturday and ask the experts.

No need to reply!
 
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riverrat10k

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You are correct in assuming that though something is legal, you may still get hassled for it. Be sure you know the laws and pick your battles carefully. As we have recently seen first-hand, justice can be had but it can be expensive and time consuming. Ask Skidmark.
 

Grapeshot

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Right back to the real topic. Will I be juged if I have a nice juicy berger for breakfast at 9:30 am? I would judge me.

Possibly, but so what?

There might be one or two that will form an opinion that you were hungry. Just remember that it takes a unanimous decision of the jury to convict you. Besides it is a civil case and, while the standards for a judgement are lower as opposed to a criminal charge, the worst you can expect is to have to buy the coffee for everyone.

If Judge Courtney is presiding, she will (if past performance is any indication) refuse to accept the jury's recommendation and throw out any negative reading on some technical grounds. If we/you draw one of the alternate [strike]servers[/strike] judges, you can still anticipate a fair hearing.

Just listen to your lawyers' advice. That is what you pay them for, right?

That's all an insider thing. Will explain during [strike]breakfast[/strike] pretrial motions tomorrow. :cool:
 

Grapeshot

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Nice breakfast with lots of good conversation.

Seven adults and three of the best behaved young ones around - charter members of FFOA - Future Firearms Owners of America.
Parents taking responsibility and doing a great job - Kudos!
 
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