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Thread: Gun owners’ guide to the 4th Amendment: Seizures

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Gun owners’ guide to the 4th Amendment: Seizures

    The modern era of 4th Amendment jurisprudence started in 1968 with the landmark ruling in Terry v. Ohio. Under Terry, a seizure occurs “[o]nly when [an] officer, by means of physical force or show of authority, has in some way restrained the liberty of a citizen.”

    After Terry, there are three broad categories of allowable “stops”, only one of which is not considered a seizure of the person. These are ...

    Excerpt ... Read more

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    However, they also noted that fingerprinting at the scene of a Terry Stop is not necessarily violative of the 4th Amendment.
    I would argue the other way. Since that is their claim then I would go to the 5th Amendment because the fingerprints are a forced testimony against one's self.
    Now if you were to borrow a friend's car, gun, boat, computer, etc, and it gets stolen shortly after you return it. Then the property is found in a dumpster, pond, garage, etc it gets dusted for prints your prints are found on it and now you will be a suspect and could be charged based on the prints alone. While awaiting a hearing you could be locked up and deprived of life, liberty, property (cops are the biggest bunch of thieves IMHO), etc. Then while waiting for the prosecutor and/or judge to get their thumbs out of their hind ends, you could lose your job, marriage, reputation, life, and more. Even if your friend comes down and tells them that they have the wrong person, you might be be let loose even then. Once tried if you are found not guilty you don't get that time you lost back, you don't get compensated, you don't get to sue you boss for the lost job etc. The government agents just say, "Well I, think you're guilty/ am just doing what I am told/ insert BS line here." Then after that, "Sorry/I'll get you next time/well you won/insert follow up BS here."

    This is a slippery slimy slope. I think that the Terry cause should have been over turned and that if the cops don't see anything/don't have a warrant that they need to F off and leave us freedom loving citizens alone.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  3. #3
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Even a Terry Stop has complications. If you are pulled over and you step out of your car, shut the door and lock it, that has been proven to end the chance for a Terry search because the items in dispute are no longer in easy reach. I forget the case, I'll have to dig it up. A fella had his conviction tossed out and reimbursed for his prison sentence.
    IANAL
    Lifetime member, Gun Owners of America (http://gunowners.org/)
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    Registering gun owners to prevent crime, is like registering Jews to prevent a HOLOCAUST.

    I am not a lawyer in real life, or in play life. So anything I say is for debate and discussion only.

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Good Article John.

    Good cop video, and then a real bad one Pima cops made my blood boil.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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