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Thread: WA State CPL Question

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    WA State CPL Question

    Ping out gun shopping for the lady this afternoon. Couple of questions. First, is there a waiting period if you already have purchased a pistol and hold a WA state CPL? Second, do you have to be the registered owner of the firearm to legally conceal carry it? I've looked through websites but couldn't find answers. Thanks.

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    If you have a current CPL there is no wait. It has nothing to do with having previously purchased a firearm or not.

    It doesn't matter who's gun you're concealing. There isn't any "registration" of guns in Washington.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    If you are out shopping for someone else then they need to fill out the paper work for the gun and your CPL will be of no assistance in receiving the gun on the same day.

    If you are shopping for yourself then once the paper worked is filled out and filed and no holds are reported then yes you can walk out the door with it.

    Your CPL covers you carrying a handgun concealed and ownership is not an issue unless of course it is stolen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    If you are out shopping for someone else then they need to fill out the paper work for the gun and your CPL will be of no assistance in receiving the gun on the same day.

    If you are shopping for yourself then once the paper worked is filled out and filed and no holds are reported then yes you can walk out the door with it.

    Your CPL covers you carrying a handgun concealed and ownership is not an issue unless of course it is stolen.

    Just to clarify, ishy, what BigDave is alluding to is a "straw man purchase" and he is absolutely spot on about the need for the actual gun buyer to fill out the required paperwork. Doing it any other way is a federal crime.

    There is a caveat to this, however, that I personally ran into last year. If you are buying the firearm as a gift, and you are the actual purchaser (your money), then you fill out the paperwork. I got that from two trusted ATF people in two different offices (just to make sure I got the same answer!) when the question came up and I did some checking.

    Your initial question is a bit confusing to me, though. Please clarify...are you referring to a purchase you "just" made and now have a CPL, or is this an entirely separate purchase? Under state law, as BD notes, you don't face the five-business-day wait if you have a current, valid CPL, and you clear the NICS check.

    It appears you have experience in another state that requires a permit to be linked to a specific gun, that right? A couple of states are that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    Just to clarify, ishy, what BigDave is alluding to is a "straw man purchase" and he is absolutely spot on about the need for the actual gun buyer to fill out the required paperwork. Doing it any other way is a federal crime.

    There is a caveat to this, however, that I personally ran into last year. If you are buying the firearm as a gift, and you are the actual purchaser (your money), then you fill out the paperwork. I got that from two trusted ATF people in two different offices (just to make sure I got the same answer!) when the question came up and I did some checking.

    Your initial question is a bit confusing to me, though. Please clarify...are you referring to a purchase you "just" made and now have a CPL, or is this an entirely separate purchase? Under state law, as BD notes, you don't face the five-business-day wait if you have a current, valid CPL, and you clear the NICS check.

    It appears you have experience in another state that requires a permit to be linked to a specific gun, that right? A couple of states are that way.


    That is exactly what it is, a gift. I'm not trying to make a purchase to get around the waiting period. I am the purchaser with my money and this is soley a gift to my girlfriend. I currently hold my CPL if that answers your question. I've just heard mixed things about weather or not you have to or don't have to wait if you currently hold a CPL.

    So this is my understanding thy it is LEGAL for me to purchase a hand gun under my name with my money and is LEGAL for me to gift this to my girlfriend and will be LEGAL for her to carry this gifted hand gun conceal ONCE SHE HAS HER CPL IN HAND.

    Thanks

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishyid View Post
    That is exactly what it is, a gift. I'm not trying to make a purchase to get around the waiting period. I am the purchaser with my money and this is soley a gift to my girlfriend. I currently hold my CPL if that answers your question. I've just heard mixed things about weather or not you have to or don't have to wait if you currently hold a CPL.

    So this is my understanding thy it is LEGAL for me to purchase a hand gun under my name with my money and is LEGAL for me to gift this to my girlfriend and will be LEGAL for her to carry this gifted hand gun conceal ONCE SHE HAS HER CPL IN HAND.

    Thanks
    Lucky girl! Also you are lucky to have a GF that wants to carry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishyid View Post
    That is exactly what it is, a gift. I'm not trying to make a purchase to get around the waiting period. I am the purchaser with my money and this is soley a gift to my girlfriend. I currently hold my CPL if that answers your question. I've just heard mixed things about weather or not you have to or don't have to wait if you currently hold a CPL.

    So this is my understanding thy it is LEGAL for me to purchase a hand gun under my name with my money and is LEGAL for me to gift this to my girlfriend and will be LEGAL for her to carry this gifted hand gun conceal ONCE SHE HAS HER CPL IN HAND.

    Thanks
    Yes. And I can't find it, but there was a federal appeals court decision that basically held that as long as you do not purchase it for a prohibited person you are good to go....
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Lucky girl! Also you are lucky to have a GF that wants to carry.
    +1

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    Just because you have your concealed weapon permit does not mean you do not have to wait they might still put A delay on it. I have had my CPL for 15 years and purchased A handgun last thursday and got delayed they called me monday and told me they got the OK from NICS. So there is A posability you will still have to wait.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911er View Post
    Just because you have your concealed weapon permit does not mean you do not have to wait they might still put A delay on it. I have had my CPL for 15 years and purchased A handgun last thursday and got delayed they called me monday and told me they got the OK from NICS. So there is A posability you will still have to wait.
    You must be on one of those "lists."
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    You must be on one of those "lists."
    I would not say that.

    I tried to buy two guns in one day from two stores. The first store had me wait because NICS would not say clear.

    The second store I walked out the door after paying because NICS had cleared me right away. All in the same day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I would not say that.

    I tried to buy two guns in one day from two stores. The first store had me wait because NICS would not say clear.

    The second store I walked out the door after paying because NICS had cleared me right away. All in the same day.
    When NICS is called there are several different levels. The first call may have been a level 1 employee and because of your common name or other factors the level 1 NICS employee could not look into a more sensitive data base. Therefore, a delay, is processed until a level 2 NICS employee(supervisor 1) is available to enter the database.

    Sometimes, the level 2 (or higher) employee answers the original call and has the ability to look into all the databases available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    When NICS is called there are several different levels. The first call may have been a level 1 employee and because of your common name or other factors the level 1 NICS employee could not look into a more sensitive data base. Therefore, a delay, is processed until a level 2 NICS employee(supervisor 1) is available to enter the database.

    Sometimes, the level 2 (or higher) employee answers the original call and has the ability to look into all the databases available.
    Actually if the operator who answers the call can't verify a proceed they normally hand the phone off to an examiner who then takes a deeper look. If they're having issues digging up info or they're having problems with their systems they'll do a delay. Usually a delay occurs because there is something they need to research to make sure they are dealing with the right person and it takes more time than a few minutes. A delay can be initiated from either the answering operator or the examiner. I don't work for NICS and don't presume to understand all they go through for a background check but I've seen people with CPLs get delays and I've seen folks denied who have all kinds of court documents that say they're good to go. Sadly I have to go by what NICS says.
    Last edited by sirpuma; 05-11-2012 at 01:02 PM.

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I would not say that.

    I tried to buy two guns in one day from two stores. The first store had me wait because NICS would not say clear.

    The second store I walked out the door after paying because NICS had cleared me right away. All in the same day.
    It was a tinfoil hat sort of joke. Jeez!
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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    You're alright to purchase for someone else, as long as they are not prohibited from owning, or, you are not committing a "straw purchase".

    As far as the delay or wait period, it could go either way. I recently purchased a long gun, it was on a Saturday, and I got delayed. After a few days I went back in, and picked up my rifle. I have a very popular name, not as bad as John Smith, but there are several million us. The clerk at the store mentioned that, after he got off the phone with NICS. He couldn't say for sure why, as that would be a breach of privacy, I was a bit perturbed, but I knew it wasn't his fault.
    Last edited by WOD; 05-11-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    You must be on one of those "lists."

    I am probably on several of those type of lists

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    Not to hijack this thread to much but I was under the imperssion that this statement is correct -

    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    You're alright to purchase for someone else, as long as they are not prohibited from owning,
    But I'm still wondering how "Not prohibited from owning" is interperted.
    Suppose I have a freind visiting and he finds a gun at a local shop that he really wants? He cannot buy it because he is from out of state.
    Is it OK for me to purchase it ( with my own coin and all that ) turn around and give it to him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EtdBob View Post
    Not to hijack this thread to much but I was under the imperssion that this statement is correct -



    But I'm still wondering how "Not prohibited from owning" is interperted.
    Suppose I have a freind visiting and he finds a gun at a local shop that he really wants? He cannot buy it because he is from out of state.
    Is it OK for me to purchase it ( with my own coin and all that ) turn around and give it to him?
    Yes, but it would have to be transfered to him via FFL in his state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Yes, but it would have to be transfered to him via FFL in his state.
    Would it be if he was driving?
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    Straw PurchasingBuying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."
    1. An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime.
    2. An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
    3. Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble.

    Never buy a gun for someone who is unwilling or unable to do so.
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    No Federal law against straw purchase.

    There’s no question but that straw purchases took place. But since the Gamez brothers and the pretend buyers were Arizona adults with clean records, and no evidence was introduced that a prohibited person wound up with a gun, the “yes” answers, while false, weren’t materially so. That view has been endorsed by appeals courts. In U.S. v. Polk, the only known case directly on point, the Fifth Circuit held that “if the true purchaser can lawfully purchase a firearm directly, § 922(a)(6) liability under a ‘straw purchase’ theory does not attach.” More recently, in U.S. v. Ortiz, the Eleventh Circuit ruled that “straw purchases of firearms occur when an unlawful purchaser...uses a lawful ‘straw man’ purchaser...to obtain a firearm .”


    Last edited by Bill Starks; 05-12-2012 at 12:44 AM.

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    Question

    Apologize for the thread jack, but on the same subject.

    I am coming back to Wa after a brief stint in Ga, I had acquired my Ga drivers license though. Will my Wa CPL still be vaild when paired with my Ga DL? Or should I only open carry till I get my Wa DL?

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elimsitna View Post
    Apologize for the thread jack, but on the same subject.

    I am coming back to Wa after a brief stint in Ga, I had acquired my Ga drivers license though. Will my Wa CPL still be vaild when paired with my Ga DL? Or should I only open carry till I get my Wa DL?

    Thanks
    Your WA CPL is valid if you have it, the expire date has not passed and your still eligible under WA state law to possess a firearm. No requirement of residency, in fact WA allows for out of state permits.

    RCW 9.41.070 - http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.070
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 05-12-2012 at 01:50 AM.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    Your WA CPL is valid if you have it, the expire date has not passed and your still eligible under WA state law to possess a firearm. No requirement of residency, in fact WA allows for out of state permits.

    RCW 9.41.070 - http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.070
    You may have an issue if you are not a resident or meet the residence requirements, otherwise one must have a Non-Resident License or Washington State honors an out of State Concealed Pistol License or as you suggested, open carry.

    If you still have your WDL and it is current then no issue, If you are Active Military and your WDL will not expire until you ETS.
    Last edited by BigDave; 05-12-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    You're alright to purchase for someone else, as long as they are not prohibited from owning, or, you are not committing a "straw purchase".

    As far as the delay or wait period, it could go either way. I recently purchased a long gun, it was on a Saturday, and I got delayed. After a few days I went back in, and picked up my rifle. I have a very popular name, not as bad as John Smith, but there are several million us. The clerk at the store mentioned that, after he got off the phone with NICS. He couldn't say for sure why, as that would be a breach of privacy, I was a bit perturbed, but I knew it wasn't his fault.
    We can't say because they won't tell us.

    Quote Originally Posted by EtdBob View Post
    Not to hijack this thread to much but I was under the imperssion that this statement is correct -



    But I'm still wondering how "Not prohibited from owning" is interperted.
    Suppose I have a freind visiting and he finds a gun at a local shop that he really wants? He cannot buy it because he is from out of state.
    Is it OK for me to purchase it ( with my own coin and all that ) turn around and give it to him?
    Anyone (not otherwise legally prohibited) can purchase, but non residents can't take possession of a handgun. He can purchase it and have it shipped to an FFL in his state though. However he can purchase a long gun and take possession of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Would it be if he was driving?
    A non resident can't purchase a handgun and take possession of it. So whether they drove, flew, walked, rode a bike or a horse it doesn't matter. If they are not a resident of the state they can't purchase a handgun and take possession of it. But he should be able to purchase it and have the dealer ship it to an FFL in his home state.

    (*NOTE: Active duty military with current PCS orders that station them in the state are considered residents even if they maintain a driver's license in another state.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elimsitna View Post
    Apologize for the thread jack, but on the same subject.

    I am coming back to Wa after a brief stint in Ga, I had acquired my Ga drivers license though. Will my Wa CPL still be vaild when paired with my Ga DL? Or should I only open carry till I get my Wa DL?

    Thanks
    As far as CC goes, as long as your CPL is still valid (not expired) you should still be good to go to carry concealed and loaded in a vehicle. Our state issues non resident CPLs.

    As far as purchasing goes you will need to provide proof of residence (a government document that lists your physical address in this state) before you can purchase a handgun. The CPL would only wave the requirement of the 5 day waiting period. However if you are active duty military and being stationed in the state (not TDY but actually PCS) then a copy of your orders showing your change of station to WA will suffice for residency proof though you still need to provide documentation of your current physical address.
    Last edited by sirpuma; 05-12-2012 at 10:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    You must be on one of those "lists."
    That's not always the case either, there are times that simply because the FFL seller read something off the purchase/registration from wrong they will say Hold. I had that happen to me even when I was purchasing a Rifle as when the guy behind the counter was reading info from my form he read an N as an A and the NICS came back with Hold. I had heard the mistake but didn't think it worth correcting him on the spot. When he told me that the NICS insta-check came back with hold.. I mentioned to him the error he made.. He called it back in right then and corrected that and they said proceed.
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