WA State CPL Question

ishyid · May 10, 2012

Ping out gun shopping for the lady this afternoon. Couple of questions. First, is there a waiting period if you already have purchased a pistol and hold a WA state CPL? Second, do you have to be the registered owner of the firearm to legally conceal carry it? I've looked through websites but couldn't find answers. Thanks.

SpyderTattoo · May 10, 2012

If you have a current CPL there is no wait. It has nothing to do with having previously purchased a firearm or not.

It doesn't matter who's gun you're concealing. There isn't any "registration" of guns in Washington.

BigDave · May 10, 2012

If you are out shopping for someone else then they need to fill out the paper work for the gun and your CPL will be of no assistance in receiving the gun on the same day.

If you are shopping for yourself then once the paper worked is filled out and filed and no holds are reported then yes you can walk out the door with it.

Your CPL covers you carrying a handgun concealed and ownership is not an issue unless of course it is stolen.

Dave Workman · May 10, 2012

BigDave said:
If you are out shopping for someone else then they need to fill out the paper work for the gun and your CPL will be of no assistance in receiving the gun on the same day.

If you are shopping for yourself then once the paper worked is filled out and filed and no holds are reported then yes you can walk out the door with it.

Your CPL covers you carrying a handgun concealed and ownership is not an issue unless of course it is stolen.

Just to clarify, ishy, what BigDave is alluding to is a "straw man purchase" and he is absolutely spot on about the need for the actual gun buyer to fill out the required paperwork. Doing it any other way is a federal crime.

There is a caveat to this, however, that I personally ran into last year. If you are buying the firearm as a gift, and you are the actual purchaser (your money), then you fill out the paperwork. I got that from two trusted ATF people in two different offices (just to make sure I got the same answer!) when the question came up and I did some checking.

Your initial question is a bit confusing to me, though. Please clarify...are you referring to a purchase you "just" made and now have a CPL, or is this an entirely separate purchase? Under state law, as BD notes, you don't face the five-business-day wait if you have a current, valid CPL, and you clear the NICS check.

It appears you have experience in another state that requires a permit to be linked to a specific gun, that right? A couple of states are that way.

ishyid · May 10, 2012

Dave Workman said:
Just to clarify, ishy, what BigDave is alluding to is a "straw man purchase" and he is absolutely spot on about the need for the actual gun buyer to fill out the required paperwork. Doing it any other way is a federal crime.

There is a caveat to this, however, that I personally ran into last year. If you are buying the firearm as a gift, and you are the actual purchaser (your money), then you fill out the paperwork. I got that from two trusted ATF people in two different offices (just to make sure I got the same answer!) when the question came up and I did some checking.

Your initial question is a bit confusing to me, though. Please clarify...are you referring to a purchase you "just" made and now have a CPL, or is this an entirely separate purchase? Under state law, as BD notes, you don't face the five-business-day wait if you have a current, valid CPL, and you clear the NICS check.

It appears you have experience in another state that requires a permit to be linked to a specific gun, that right? A couple of states are that way.

That is exactly what it is, a gift. I'm not trying to make a purchase to get around the waiting period. I am the purchaser with my money and this is soley a gift to my girlfriend. I currently hold my CPL if that answers your question. I've just heard mixed things about weather or not you have to or don't have to wait if you currently hold a CPL.

So this is my understanding thy it is LEGAL for me to purchase a hand gun under my name with my money and is LEGAL for me to gift this to my girlfriend and will be LEGAL for her to carry this gifted hand gun conceal ONCE SHE HAS HER CPL IN HAND.

Thanks

golddigger14s · May 10, 2012

ishyid said:
That is exactly what it is, a gift. I'm not trying to make a purchase to get around the waiting period. I am the purchaser with my money and this is soley a gift to my girlfriend. I currently hold my CPL if that answers your question. I've just heard mixed things about weather or not you have to or don't have to wait if you currently hold a CPL.

So this is my understanding thy it is LEGAL for me to purchase a hand gun under my name with my money and is LEGAL for me to gift this to my girlfriend and will be LEGAL for her to carry this gifted hand gun conceal ONCE SHE HAS HER CPL IN HAND.

Thanks

Lucky girl! Also you are lucky to have a GF that wants to carry.

gogodawgs · May 10, 2012

ishyid said:
That is exactly what it is, a gift. I'm not trying to make a purchase to get around the waiting period. I am the purchaser with my money and this is soley a gift to my girlfriend. I currently hold my CPL if that answers your question. I've just heard mixed things about weather or not you have to or don't have to wait if you currently hold a CPL.

So this is my understanding thy it is LEGAL for me to purchase a hand gun under my name with my money and is LEGAL for me to gift this to my girlfriend and will be LEGAL for her to carry this gifted hand gun conceal ONCE SHE HAS HER CPL IN HAND.

Thanks

Yes. And I can't find it, but there was a federal appeals court decision that basically held that as long as you do not purchase it for a prohibited person you are good to go....

Jeff Hayes · May 10, 2012

golddigger14s said:
Lucky girl! Also you are lucky to have a GF that wants to carry.

+1

1911er · May 10, 2012

Just because you have your concealed weapon permit does not mean you do not have to wait they might still put A delay on it. I have had my CPL for 15 years and purchased A handgun last thursday and got delayed they called me monday and told me they got the OK from NICS. So there is A posability you will still have to wait.

tombrewster421 · May 10, 2012

1911er said:
Just because you have your concealed weapon permit does not mean you do not have to wait they might still put A delay on it. I have had my CPL for 15 years and purchased A handgun last thursday and got delayed they called me monday and told me they got the OK from NICS. So there is A posability you will still have to wait.

You must be on one of those "lists."

Freedom1Man · May 11, 2012

tombrewster421 said:
You must be on one of those "lists."

I would not say that.

I tried to buy two guns in one day from two stores. The first store had me wait because NICS would not say clear.

The second store I walked out the door after paying because NICS had cleared me right away. All in the same day.

gogodawgs · May 11, 2012

Freedom1Man said:
I would not say that.

I tried to buy two guns in one day from two stores. The first store had me wait because NICS would not say clear.

The second store I walked out the door after paying because NICS had cleared me right away. All in the same day.

When NICS is called there are several different levels. The first call may have been a level 1 employee and because of your common name or other factors the level 1 NICS employee could not look into a more sensitive data base. Therefore, a delay, is processed until a level 2 NICS employee(supervisor 1) is available to enter the database.

Sometimes, the level 2 (or higher) employee answers the original call and has the ability to look into all the databases available.

sirpuma · May 11, 2012

gogodawgs said:
When NICS is called there are several different levels. The first call may have been a level 1 employee and because of your common name or other factors the level 1 NICS employee could not look into a more sensitive data base. Therefore, a delay, is processed until a level 2 NICS employee(supervisor 1) is available to enter the database.

Sometimes, the level 2 (or higher) employee answers the original call and has the ability to look into all the databases available.

Actually if the operator who answers the call can't verify a proceed they normally hand the phone off to an examiner who then takes a deeper look. If they're having issues digging up info or they're having problems with their systems they'll do a delay. Usually a delay occurs because there is something they need to research to make sure they are dealing with the right person and it takes more time than a few minutes. A delay can be initiated from either the answering operator or the examiner. I don't work for NICS and don't presume to understand all they go through for a background check but I've seen people with CPLs get delays and I've seen folks denied who have all kinds of court documents that say they're good to go. Sadly I have to go by what NICS says.

tombrewster421 · May 11, 2012

Freedom1Man said:
I would not say that.

I tried to buy two guns in one day from two stores. The first store had me wait because NICS would not say clear.

The second store I walked out the door after paying because NICS had cleared me right away. All in the same day.

It was a tinfoil hat sort of joke. Jeez!

WOD · May 11, 2012

You're alright to purchase for someone else, as long as they are not prohibited from owning, or, you are not committing a "straw purchase".

As far as the delay or wait period, it could go either way. I recently purchased a long gun, it was on a Saturday, and I got delayed. After a few days I went back in, and picked up my rifle. I have a very popular name, not as bad as John Smith, but there are several million us. The clerk at the store mentioned that, after he got off the phone with NICS. He couldn't say for sure why, as that would be a breach of privacy, I was a bit perturbed, but I knew it wasn't his fault.

1911er · May 11, 2012

tombrewster421 said:
You must be on one of those "lists."

I am probably on several of those type of lists

Shi# list !!!
Hit list !!!
Trist list !!! and
Americas most unwanted !!!

EtdBob · May 11, 2012

Not to hijack this thread to much but I was under the imperssion that this statement is correct -

WOD said:
You're alright to purchase for someone else, as long as they are not prohibited from owning,

But I'm still wondering how "Not prohibited from owning" is interperted.
Suppose I have a freind visiting and he finds a gun at a local shop that he really wants? He cannot buy it because he is from out of state.
Is it OK for me to purchase it ( with my own coin and all that ) turn around and give it to him?

Trigger Dr · May 11, 2012

EtdBob said:
Not to hijack this thread to much but I was under the imperssion that this statement is correct -

But I'm still wondering how "Not prohibited from owning" is interperted.
Suppose I have a freind visiting and he finds a gun at a local shop that he really wants? He cannot buy it because he is from out of state.
Is it OK for me to purchase it ( with my own coin and all that ) turn around and give it to him?

Yes, but it would have to be transfered to him via FFL in his state.

gogodawgs · May 11, 2012

Trigger Dr said:
Yes, but it would have to be transfered to him via FFL in his state.

Would it be if he was driving?

Bill Starks · May 12, 2012

Straw PurchasingBuying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."

An illegal firearm purchase (straw purchase) is a federal crime.
An illegal firearm purchase can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000.
Buying a gun for someone who can't can cost you your good name and land you in big trouble.

Never buy a gun for someone who is unwilling or unable to do so.

Whatever you do, Don't Lie for the Other Guy!

http://www.policeissues.com/html/gun_control_09.html#AmericaGunPurveyor

No Federal law against straw purchase.

There’s no question but that straw purchases took place. But since the Gamez brothers and the pretend buyers were Arizona adults with clean records, and no evidence was introduced that a prohibited person wound up with a gun, the “yes” answers, while false, weren’t materially so. That view has been endorsed by appeals courts. In U.S. v. Polk, the only known case directly on point, the Fifth Circuit held that “if the true purchaser can lawfully purchase a firearm directly, § 922(a)(6) liability under a ‘straw purchase’ theory does not attach.” More recently, in U.S. v. Ortiz, the Eleventh Circuit ruled that “straw purchases of firearms occur when an unlawful purchaser...uses a lawful ‘straw man’ purchaser...to obtain a firearm .”

WA State CPL Question

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