Sportco Fife

ishyid · May 11, 2012

I went in yesterday evening to purchase a handle gun. Pink Walther P22 to be exact. It's for my girlfriend to shoot and what not. The salesperson would not let me purchase it myself and fill out the paperwork. He fed me some mumbo jumbo that it's against federal law for him to sell me it knowing it is going to be for her. But he was perfectly ok for her to fill out the Paper work and me pay for it. To me none of it makes sense. Can someone try and explain it to me a little better?

Thanks

Levi · May 11, 2012

Federal law makes it illegal to do a "straw purchase," meaning acting as a purchasing agent for another person. This is what he may have been thinking.

In the future, you may want to state clearly "I'm buy this gun for myself to give as a gift." This is legal and won't run you or the store afoul of the law as long as you have no reason to believe the person you're giving it to isn't barred from having guns.

I was at Bull's Eye yesterday and there was a couple shooting a pink P22. Neat gun.

amlevin · May 11, 2012

There’s no federal law that prohibits a gift of a firearm to a relative or friend that lives in your home state.

It is important that you know that the person you are going to give the firearm to is allowed to own a firearm. Over 18 for a pistol, not a felon, no restricted due to mental problems, etc.

This may have been a case of you giving too much information. The gun is yours until you give it as a gift. It's not a Straw Purchase unless she gives you the money to go purchase it for her. A gift is just that, something you buy and then own, then give to someone else without any compensation specific to the gift.

Just fill out the 4473, take possession, and then wrap and give it your Girlfriend.

As an alternative, just give a gift certificate or gift card for the amount necessary to purchase the firearm and then let them fill out the 4473.

If your GF lives out of state then it has to be transferred to her through an FFL.

1911er · May 11, 2012

something to do with Federal regs

If they know you are buying A weapon for someone else they do not know if that person is eligible to own A fire arm there for it is considerd A

Straw Purchase

A straw purchase is any purchase where a person purchases a firearm for another person who is not eligible to purchase it. Although it usually refers to the purchase of illegal firearms, the term can refer to almost anything bought or sold illegally.
In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor.
A Firearms Transaction Record, or Federal Form 4473, is a United States government form that must be filled out when a person buys a firearm from a Federal Firearm License holder (such as a gun store). For knowingly making any false statement or representation on Federal Form 4473, the penalty is 10 years.
Federal Form 4473 [http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/]

ishyid · May 11, 2012

Levi said:
Federal law makes it illegal to do a "straw purchase," meaning acting as a purchasing agent for another person. This is what he may have been thinking.

In the future, you may want to state clearly "I'm buy this gun for myself to give as a gift." This is legal and won't run you or the store afoul of the law as long as you have no reason to believe the person you're giving it to isn't barred from having guns.

This is where I got confused. After he said he can't sell it knowing it will be hers, I said its going to be a gift to her. He said still can't do it.

But what threw me for a loop was that he allowed her to fill the paperwork but me to pay for it. How does he know that it isn't illegal for me to have a fire arm and that she is filling the paperwork out so I don't have to. (yeah, granit I was open carrying my M&P and that probably tells him enough, but still! Not the point!! Haha)

gogodawgs · May 11, 2012

1911er said:
If they know you are buying A weapon for someone else they do not know if that person is eligible to own A fire arm there for it is considerd A

Straw Purchase

A straw purchase is any purchase where a person purchases a firearm for another person who is not eligible to purchase it. Although it usually refers to the purchase of illegal firearms, the term can refer to almost anything bought or sold illegally.
In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor.
A Firearms Transaction Record, or Federal Form 4473, is a United States government form that must be filled out when a person buys a firearm from a Federal Firearm License holder (such as a gun store). For knowingly making any false statement or representation on Federal Form 4473, the penalty is 10 years.
Federal Form 4473 [http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/]

This is correct. It is only an illegal purchase if you purchased it for your girlfriend and she was a prohibited person.

The sales clerk was simply uninformed and overly cautious.

sirpuma · May 11, 2012

gogodawgs said:
This is correct. It is only an illegal purchase if you purchased it for your girlfriend and she was a prohibited person.

The sales clerk was simply uninformed and overly cautious.

I have dealt with people purchasing as gifts for loved ones and I've dealt with people trying to make straw purchases and even had people try and make a purchase and have someone else fill out the paperwork for them. I can usually sniff out the bad deals and I tell them to pound sand (in a polite way). Not sure why that dealer was having an issue. Usually when someone is getting something as a gift I offer them the choice, they can fill out the paperwork or the person who's getting it can fill out the paperwork.

BigDave · May 11, 2012

ishyid said:
I went in yesterday evening to purchase a handle gun. Pink Walther P22 to be exact. It's for my girlfriend to shoot and what not. The salesperson would not let me purchase it myself and fill out the paperwork. He fed me some mumbo jumbo that it's against federal law for him to sell me it knowing it is going to be for her. But he was perfectly ok for her to fill out the Paper work and me pay for it. To me none of it makes sense. Can someone try and explain it to me a little better?

Thanks

This was discussed in length in your other post http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?102760-WA-State-CPL-Question&p=1752159#post1752159 .

It is pretty clear you are legal to purchase the firearm and give it as a gift to someone you know is legal to own it, so why interject the issue to the clerk when you are making a legal purchase and doing nothing illegal.

In this case apparently, sometimes people make things more difficult for themselves by providing to much information then is required and I would not be upset with the clerk even though he is not up on the law.

Bill Starks · May 12, 2012

http://www.policeissues.com/html/gun_control_09.html#AmericaGunPurveyor

No Federal law against straw purchase.

There’s no question but that straw purchases took place. But since the Gamez brothers and the pretend buyers were Arizona adults with clean records, and no evidence was introduced that a prohibited person wound up with a gun, the “yes” answers, while false, weren’t materially so.

That view has been endorsed by appeals courts. In U.S. v. Polk, the only known case directly on point, the Fifth Circuit held that “if the true purchaser can lawfully purchase a firearm directly, § 922(a)(6) liability under a ‘straw purchase’ theory does not attach.”

More recently, in U.S. v. Ortiz, the Eleventh Circuit ruled that “straw purchases of firearms occur when an unlawful purchaser...uses a lawful ‘straw man’ purchaser...to obtain a firearm .”

Sportco Fife

ishyid

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Levi

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amlevin

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1911er

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ishyid

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gogodawgs

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sirpuma

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BigDave

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Bill Starks

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