Stopped Detained Searched w/out RAS or PC. AUDIO

stainless1911 said:

I should OC the M1A over there.

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I have an M4 carbine that would sure turn a few heads lol

Bring it here:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...ty-council-meeting-in-Birmingham-on-June-11th

stainless1911 said:

Bring it here:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...ty-council-meeting-in-Birmingham-on-June-11th

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You did fine. When you haven't had it happen in a while, it's just like being a new OCer. Any cop worth his tin could have quickly seen you knew the law and were most likely legal. This was just a fishing expedition and I have a suspicion they knew who you were... they saw you walk through this way many times. Sort of reminds me of what used to be a common occurrence.

Regarding the pistol registration: what I don't like about the law is the onus of responsibility is on you BUT, as we have seen, the "computer" can be wrong. I even carry a copy of my EDC registration with me; not sure it would help. Basically, they could have arrested you for the "no registration" and it's your word versus the cop's. I'm sure that there are people out there who have complied with registration yet are shown in LEIN to have not registered their pistol. What if it didn't get straitened out and you were cited, how can anyone ever prove that they have registered their pistol? Even a copy of your RI60 (Pistol Purchase Record) doesn't prove that you have actually registered the pistol, stamp or no stamp. This law needs to be trashed immediately.

What about the GFSZ though?

stainless1911 said:

What about the GFSZ though?

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Are you advocating the continued existence of a law which has done nothing to enhance the safety of others, costs money to enforce, and could be used to put someone in jail even if the law is followed because it MIGHT serve as an exception to the Federal Gun Free School Zone Law? Please show me a case or official statement that the registration serves as an exception. I think a federal prosecutor could successfully argue that, since the "license" to purchase expires within ten days of issuance, it can't be used for an exception since the law seems to imply one must be currently licensed (see below). I could also see them saying it just doesn't serve as an exception. Better yet, why not just throw that law out too?

from: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-225113--,00.html
A License to Purchase a Pistol is valid for 10 days to purchase a pistol. The seller must sign the license and keep one copy for his/her records. An individual must keep a copy and return two copies to the local police department within 10 days of purchasing the pistol.

Federal Gun Free School Zone Law:
18 USC 922(q)(1) Federal Gun-Free School Zones


(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm--

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is--

(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

No, Im not advocating that. What I said was, "What about the GFSZ though". So what about it? I have advocated the removal of this infringement in the past, now that it put me at risk, why would I suddenly support the infringement that affected me personally? If the law is repealed, then what are we going to do about it? Something needs to be put in its place.

stainless1911 said:

No, Im not advocating that. What I said was, "What about the GFSZ though". So what about it? I have advocated the removal of this infringement in the past, now that it put me at risk, why would I suddenly support the infringement that affected me personally? If the law is repealed, then what are we going to do about it? Something needs to be put in its place.

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Please cite a case where it has been used as a successful defense to the charge of violating the Federal Gun Free School Zone Law... or some communication from the feds saying that it does serve as an exception.

taken from wiki

The Gun Free School Zones Act states:

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—



(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

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Since we have a background check, and a test to "qualify" for the license, I would say that the LTP is the exemption. The registration does not expire, therefore I fail to see why the license would expire in 10 days.

The 10 days is an expiration date of sorts, registration is like putting something in the refrigerator, if you leave it out, (not registering it), then it spoils in 10 days, if you refrigerate it, (register), then it lasts longer, like cryogenics.

Then theres 28.422 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(h3...leg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-422

This writes into law clearly, that a PP is a license.

stainless1911 said:

The Gun Free School Zones Act states:

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—



(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

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Since we have a background check, and a test to "qualify" for the license, I would say that the LTP is the exemption. The registration does not expire, therefore I fail to see why the license would expire in 10 days.

The 10 days is an expiration date of sorts, registration is like putting something in the refrigerator, if you leave it out, (not registering it), then it spoils in 10 days, if you refrigerate it, (register), then it lasts longer, like cryogenics.

Then theres 28.422 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(h3...leg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-422

This writes into law clearly, that a PP is a license.

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I happen to agree with your opinion BUT that is immaterial. Once again, find me either a case where the LTP is accepted OR a letter/email/statement that the Feds agree with us and I would be willing to write that it WILL be accepted as meeting the exception in the law. Until then, relying on the LTP is dangerous, even if mildly so.
BTW, registration is separate from actually being licensed to purchase. The license to purchase expires, the registration does not.

I dont think there is a case law, or a letter. A letter, or even an AGO, would just be an opinion, not worth much more than yours or mine.

So what you're saying, is that a person without a CPL is subject to the fed GFSZ?

I doubt that would fly, it would make travel impossible.Take my area for example. You would eliminate Scott Lake Road, a major connecter between dixie and M-59. Mott High school is there. You Eliminate Pontiac Lake Road, a Major connector between M-59 and Telegraph. Again Mott HS. You Eliminate Dixie Highway, because of Our Lady of the Lakes, and further North, Springfeild Christian Academy. You Eliminate I-75 because of again, Springfeild Christian Academy. You loose East Holly Road because of Holly HS, and I think the Jr High is there as well.

If you looked at a map and eliminated the use of these roads, travel around here would pretty much cease. In order for me to get to my parents house in waterford, I would have to, instead of an 8 mile trip, go North 75 to 23, then come back south to pick up M 59, and come in town through that route. I would have to get specific directions, but I would guess it would take over an hour.

ETA, more like an hour and a half

A friend just told me that he thinks there is a school North on 59 that would scrub that route altogether

stainless1911 said:

I dont think there is a case law, or a letter. A letter, or even an AGO, would just be an opinion, not worth much more than yours or mine.

So what you're saying, is that a person without a CPL is subject to the fed GFSZ?

I doubt that would fly, it would make travel impossible.Take my area for example. You would eliminate Scott Lake Road, a major connecter between dixie and M-59. Mott High school is there. You Eliminate Pontiac Lake Road, a Major connector between M-59 and Telegraph. Again Mott HS. You Eliminate Dixie Highway, because of Our Lady of the Lakes, and further North, Springfeild Christian Academy. You Eliminate I-75 because of again, Springfeild Christian Academy. You loose East Holly Road because of Holly HS, and I think the Jr High is there as well.

If you looked at a map and eliminated the use of these roads, travel around here would pretty much cease. In order for me to get to my parents house in waterford, I would have to, instead of an 8 mile trip, go North 75 to 23, then come back south to pick up M 59, and come in town through that route. I would have to get specific directions, but I would guess it would take over an hour.

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No, I am NOT saying that a person with a CPL is not exempt from the FGFSZ, I have a copy of a letter from the ATF that says otherwise; I see no reason not to believe the ATF. see: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

So, your argument rests on the fact that you would be violating the law many times per day? Isn't this what happens in all of the other states with no LTP? They seem to be complaining about just such a situation. Furthermore, if I travel to Florida and drive around while there, the fact that I have a license accepted by the Florida authorities is of no use in the exception. So, when someone is out of state with a CPL, the exemption is no longer "valid"

I know that a letter, email, etc is just an opinion... I was being nice and trying to meet you half-way. As I see it, to rely on "logic" when just such a situation IS the case in all of the states with no LTP scheme (or something similar) is an error. The government not prosecuting because it doesn't seem logical... that's royal. lol

DrTodd said:

No, I am NOT saying that a person with a CPL is not exempt from the FGFSZ,

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I was debating the LTP not the CPL.

DrTodd said:

So, your argument rests on the fact that you would be violating the law many times per day?

l

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My argument is that you cant travel while exercising your gun rights under that law.

I not arguing with you, Im debating with you. I think we are on the same side here, just an exercise.

stainless1911 said:

My argument is that you cant travel while exercising your gun rights under that law.

I not arguing with you, Im debating with you. I think we are on the same side here, just an exercise.

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Argument is a legal term in this case and means your side of a discussion. Like "it could be argued that a LTP is accepted/not accepted...etc." Not an argument like a screaming match between by daughter and me.

Correct. I was trying to be clear; keeping on good terms.

The video is temporarily set to private until I can do the editing.

DetroitBiker said:

Waaaaay to much Talking brother. They don't want to hear the story of your life. And they are not your buddies.
They were in the wrong,you know the drill.I hope you follow up on it.
They wasted 28 minutes of your life. Carry on.

p.s. the whole encounter probably would have been about 10 minutes if you stopped yapping

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You have hundreds of fellow OCers willing to put in cash to get You representation.Present Your info to a willing lawyer and You will be backed by the OC community if said lawyer says go.Do Nothing and You contribute to Your next fellow OCer or law abiding citizens being violated!Your Choice!

TheQ said:

More of this: I got railroaded into a crime I am not guilty of.

Dude, you plead guilty. Lay it to rest and the rest of us will too.

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Besides "the past" has no bearing on violations in the present.I know that by the facts of my own experience.Their violation of Your Rights,in the present,have NO bearing on any other facts present or past!Let it go and the next law abiding citizen it happens to can thank You for it!Same as women not reporting Rape,Robbery or Assault,there's always another victim!Thats why I asked for help to DO WHATS RIGHT!Too many macho big mouth PC Cowards out there who talk tough about Rights but when it comes time to do the Right thing they run off like the imature,guttless children who don't live up to their physical age!CARRY ON!

So your the mental case guy in mi walking around with a gun. Sarcasm. In this day and time i look at the ones unarmed as they are mental. Esp since NDAA got signed..where they can lock us up with no pc and keep us indefinately with no charges or day in court /rant over/ :cuss: