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Thread: Fellow springfieldians I have a question

  1. #1
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    Fellow springfieldians I have a question

    Hi everyone I'm a noob to owning and carrying a gun and live in Springfield mo. I'm am hopefully picking up my new xdm tomorrow...my very first gun. I'm an interested in OC until I get my CCW and maybe even after. I am wondering how smooth it goes in this town. Tobe honest I am a bit nervous about it. Also I am wondering If the type of holster makes a difference. Does the whole barrel need to be covered and things like that. Again I am totally new to this so any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Fwiwi have shot plenty before and will become very proficient and comfortable with my piece before carrying it out at all so don't freak on the noob thing. I'm not a completely incompetent boob.

    Nate

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    There's nothing specific about holsters in the Missouri state code. For the most part, everyone here strongly recommends a retention holster. If you don't have your CCW endorsement, I would avoid the full flap style holster. That could be considered carrying concealed.

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  3. #3
    Regular Member HighFlyingA380's Avatar
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    Congrats! Which version are you getting? My XD40 Service was my first auto pistol, and I absolutely love it.

    As KCGunFan said, without a CCW, avoid those full-flap holsters. To be considered open, it must be identifiable as a firearm. With holsters that cover the gun, it's only identifiable as a holster. I personally like the Blackhawk! Serpa, but you need to be aware that if used incorrectly, you can cause a negligent discharge. Because of this, many shooting competitions do not allow their use. Are you on XDTalk.com? If not, I highly suggest you do. There's tons of info on XDs, as well as holsters.

    Don't worry, you will be nervous OCing for a while. My first time out to Walmart I was extremely nervous, but I actually ran into another OCer!
    The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.
    XD40 Service
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighFlyingA380 View Post
    Congrats! Which version are you getting? My XD40 Service was my first auto pistol, and I absolutely love it.

    As KCGunFan said, without a CCW, avoid those full-flap holsters. To be considered open, it must be identifiable as a firearm. With holsters that cover the gun, it's only identifiable as a holster. I personally like the Blackhawk! Serpa, but you need to be aware that if used incorrectly, you can cause a negligent discharge. Because of this, many shooting competitions do not allow their use. Are you on XDTalk.com? If not, I highly suggest you do. There's tons of info on XDs, as well as holsters.

    Don't worry, you will be nervous OCing for a while. My first time out to Walmart I was extremely nervous, but I actually ran into another OCer!


    Thanks for the reply. I was supposed to be picking up my xdm 9 mm in OD green but it hasn't come in yet. Wassupposedtobehere Thursday or Friday at latest. Its Sunday and still not here and can't get a straight answer from store.

    On another note do people get together and go places simply to be in numbers publicly while OC? Not necessarily to make political statement so much so as instead to show public were not dangerous or crazy and for support of newbies.

    Nate

  5. #5
    Regular Member HighFlyingA380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natenite View Post
    On another note do people get together and go places simply to be in numbers publicly while OC? Not necessarily to make political statement so much so as instead to show public were not dangerous or crazy and for support of newbies.
    Everybody has their own reasons for OCing. I started because I didn't have my CCW yet, and wanted to protect myself. Joining the group was to ensure I was reading the laws correctly to be sure I was legal, as well as become more comfortable doing so around others. I continue to do so because it's a great group of people with similar interests. This makes for a great time with lots to talk about.

    I think in general it's not really a political statement, but it does help show the public that it's O.K. and nothing wrong with it. In fact, about a week ago a young pregnant couple came up to me and said they have seen me a few times carrying, and wanted to know what it was all about. After we talked for a while, they admitted they were quick shocked the first time they saw it, but by the time we were done talking, they were seriously considering buying a gun and carrying to protect their growing family. This is just one of many examples happening everywhere in which people's opinions are changed due to seeing people OC. It's a true embodiment of the saying, "if you don't use it, you lose it." If people don't ever see people carrying and don't get used to seeing it, then lawmakers will slowly take away our right to do so.
    The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.
    XD40 Service
    -Hogue Handall grip sleeve
    -Nebo Protec Elite light/laser
    -TruGlo TFO night sights
    Olympic Arms K16-SST
    -16" stainless bull-barrel
    -Quad-rail forearm
    -Millet SP2 red-dot scope
    -Fore grip w/ bi-pod
    -Nebo Protec Elite light/laser
    KelTec P11
    -Bone stock; Not much you can do to these little guys.
    No one can make a pencil...

  6. #6
    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Congrats and Welcome to the forum!!

    I started OCing for convenience, mainly during the spring/summer/fall months; then it has carried over to year round. However, I still CCW depending on where I'm going.

    Your first few times, you'll get the feeling that everyone is staring, and they could be, but most likely not. I second the retention holster. I walked into the local Kum/Go a week or so ago and the lady that has seen me 3-5 times a week; sometimes OC sometimes not, told me she didn't know I was a LEO...which, I'm not. I told her I wasn't, then she winked and said..'suuurree'. Oh well.

    When we have another outing here locally, show up and enjoy the company.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighFlyingA380 View Post
    Congrats! Which version are you getting? My XD40 Service was my first auto pistol, and I absolutely love it.

    As KCGunFan said, without a CCW, avoid those full-flap holsters. To be considered open, it must be identifiable as a firearm. With holsters that cover the gun, it's only identifiable as a holster. I personally like the Blackhawk! Serpa, but you need to be aware that if used incorrectly, you can cause a negligent discharge. Because of this, many shooting competitions do not allow their use. Are you on XDTalk.com? If not, I highly suggest you do. There's tons of info on XDs, as well as holsters.

    Don't worry, you will be nervous OCing for a while. My first time out to Walmart I was extremely nervous, but I actually ran into another OCer!

    Think about that for a moment and just how it sounds. No pistol is readily identifiable as a firearm when it's in the holster. It could just as well be an airsoft gun in a holster. The type of holster, even if it has the death-flap, is irrelevant when it comes to open carry unless there's some local ordinance against that type of holster. Springfield has no such ordinance. Basically, the aforementioned statement would be no different than saying that having it in a holster is an attempt to conceal the firearm.

    The second point is very important because if you're not comfortable you'll be less likely to carry openly. So get used to the "lookey-loo" syndrome as well as that dreaded MWAG (man with a gun) call. Do some research on the site. You'll find that if you're calm, collected, and professional in how you handle a LE contact you'll likely come out a lot better. Your comfort will grow as you carry more often.

    Springfield allows open carry. Be aware that some of their LEOs are personally anti-gun when it comes to the armed civilian and even more so when the armed civilian is in public. I'll urge you to purchase a quality recording device and carry it with you, no matter what your carry stance is in the future.

    Oh, and welcome to the forum OP!
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 05-16-2012 at 12:02 PM.

  8. #8
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    My recommendation still stands. A far as I am aware, there had been no adjudication as to whether or not a full flap holster is considered concealed. Until that's settled, I'd rather not be a test case. If you have lots of free time and a barrel full of fifty dollar bills, feel free to be the test case.

    The core issue is whether a LEO would have PC to check the holster and see if it contains a firearm. Then if it does, whether or not it's concealed. You might be able to argue that you can't search based on a suspicion that it might contain a concealed weapon. But I would not take those odds.


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  9. #9
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    Sounds like KCgunfan has had experience with St. Charles PD, STL PD, or KCPD...all of which lead to this most often:

    I agree on not being a test case. However, if one looks at it from a reasonable person standpoint it cannot be argued that an openly worn holster with a full flap is considered concealed. Again, none want to be a test case and my personal experience is that those are called "death flap" holsters in the military for a reason....the same reason I was willing to risk policy violations by refusing to wear one with the flap installed...unless on parade duty.

  10. #10
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    So, you aren't willing to become a test case, but you're happy to encourage others to become one without letting them know about it? With friends, like you, who needs enemies?

    I'm really quite a reasonable person. But, what you are saying makes no sense to me. How would carrying a firearm completely covered from viewing in any direction not be considered concealed? It seems like that's the very definition of concealed.

    Can you see they have a holster, of course. But, it's not the hiding of the holster that's violating RSMO 571.030, it's the concealing of the firearm.

    Quote Originally Posted by REALteach4u View Post
    Sounds like KCgunfan has had experience with St. Charles PD, STL PD, or KCPD...all of which lead to this most often:

    I agree on not being a test case. However, if one looks at it from a reasonable person standpoint it cannot be argued that an openly worn holster with a full flap is considered concealed. Again, none want to be a test case and my personal experience is that those are called "death flap" holsters in the military for a reason....the same reason I was willing to risk policy violations by refusing to wear one with the flap installed...unless on parade duty.

  11. #11
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    If the gun is not visible it is concealed. it you can see it, it is not concealed.

    didnt think that was too hard to understand...


    LEO cannot just come up to search your "holster". why should he? maybe he should search every fanny pack, and purse. I can wear a holster and store a flashlight or a candy bar in it.
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    So, you aren't willing to become a test case, but you're happy to encourage others to become one without letting them know about it? With friends, like you, who needs enemies?

    I'm really quite a reasonable person. But, what you are saying makes no sense to me. How would carrying a firearm completely covered from viewing in any direction not be considered concealed? It seems like that's the very definition of concealed.

    Can you see they have a holster, of course. But, it's not the hiding of the holster that's violating RSMO 571.030, it's the concealing of the firearm.
    The holster is being worn in plain sight. That should not be able to hold up in any court except the 9th-Circus and in Illinois.

    Consult Kevin Jamison to see if there's case precedence on the matter. Likely none exists and it raises an interesting conversation to say the least.
    The main question to ask is this: Are you making a concerted effort to conceal the firearm by simply having a flap over it while the holster is worn openly? No, you are not. Holsters have been designed for decades with full flaps and they are easily identifiable as holsters.

    As I said before, it would mean that any holster could be checked to verify it's actually a firearm and not an airsoft pistol with the principle you brought up. It's exactly the kind of logic/argument I would expect from bad LEOs in KC, St. Charles, and STL, the good LEOs I would expect to have enough sense to see the holster and automatically assume it's "likely" a firearm acting accordingly as a result. For that matter, if your shirt covered the grip of the firearm, or just enough to limit it being visible, while the rest of the open-top holster is in complete view then your standpoint would mean that the person is intending to conceal the firearm as it's clearly not identifiable as a firearm at that point. The same argument is made on say a universal or multi-fit holster that allows the firearm to sit very low in the holster limiting the visibility of the product making it difficult to identify as a firearm. The standpoint simply doesn't make any sense at all when it is applied to a wide range of possibilities that present the same potential result.

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