Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 176

Thread: Fort Worden State Park, Park Ranger interaction (gogodawgs first LE interaction)

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666

    Angry Fort Worden State Park, Park Ranger interaction (gogodawgs first LE interaction)

    While sitting at our campsite at Fort Worden State Park, #5, Saturday afternoon and enjoying the beautiful North West afternoon with Jim, Bill and Barb (Deros, M1gunr, Mrs. M1Gunr and gogodawgs) we were visited by a Washington State Park Ranger. She exited her truck and came over to our campsite where we were sitting around a soon to be used fire pit. She approached right behind my chair, over my right shoulder, between Jim and I. She asked if she could ask us a few questions.

    At this time Bill, Jim and I were carrying our pistols in the open. Jim and I had arrived about 24 hours before. Due to a mix up we were put up in spot #5 by a great park employee, Tina. We ended up in the handicap accessible spot about 10 paces from the restrooms. For the first day Jim and I spent most of our time setting up, sitting by the fire, and driving around town. Both of us took a couple of trips to the restrooms. We enjoyed dinner by the fire and each had an adult beverage as the sun set and the temperatures cooled. The camp chairs didn’t lend much for anyone’s views of our sidearms.

    The back of my trailer and our campsite was to our only neighbor and not many people paid us much attention.

    After we answered the park ranger that we were willing to answer a few questions she began. “I know all about your rights and all, but we received a complaint that you had your firearms. And if we receive a complaint then you must cover them up, so I was hoping you would just tuck them in.” To which Bill replied that open carry was legal in Washington and no license was required. The ranger responded that she was aware of that, but wanted us to cover. We all stated that we wouldn’t, both verbally and by shaking my head no. Then the ranger asked if she could see our ID’s. We all politely declined. Bill and Jim reiterated that neither license nor ID was required to open carry in Washington.

    All this time I am infuriated that my quite time is being interrupted by this police officer (WA Park Rangers are commissioned and dispatched by the Washington State Patrol), we stated our case, she ignored our request to be left alone and unidentified yet the ranger remained at our campsite. There is no crime, no reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has taken place or is afoot. There is no probable cause as to a felony has taken place. Yet she continues her line of questioning. Ugh.

    (Audio starts about here) I only got the last 1:30 of an approximately 3 minute conversation.

    She continues, “do you have a license?” We all refuse to answer and restate that none is required. We are not concealing. “But, do you?” I state at this time that I do not consent to this encounter and wish to be left alone.

    At this time I can see that other than giving up my 2nd, 4th and 5th amendment rights to this law enforcement officer, she will not be satisfied.
    I state, “at this time I am invoking my right to be silent.” She turns to Jim and then Bill asking them if they are invoking their right to remain silent as well. They confirm and she then, and clearly frustrated that these 3 law abiding citizens will not commit to her state appointed power. There is a brief pause and then she states, “well I will just run your plates…” as if it is some sort of threat. We all remain silent as she walks a few feet to my Jeep and Bill’s Honda. She presumably writes down our plate numbers, gets in her truck and drives off towards the loop. I see her stop for a few minutes, presumably to call in our plates, before driving off and leaving.
    We don’t see from her or have personal contact with any rangers the remainder of the day nor Sunday. With the exception of a bike patrol ranger who went through the campground about an hour after she left.

    I will be following up with a FOI request and further commentary and some suggestions to the State Park Rangers that they inform the complainants that open carry is legal.
    Live Free or Die!

  2. #2
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    1,329
    This is old news. I read about it on facebook yesterday.
    Still fun to hear it again though.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    That sounds really annoying.
    Definitely contact the agency.
    She didn't ID herself, so they'll have to go from logs of who was on duty & your description.
    You were not doing anything illegal, so there's no reason for her contact.
    And yes, she could simply have told the complainant that OC is legal & there's no reason for her to waste time contacting you.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    well, darn!!!

    I was happy to see your invite to sit by the fire and I did intend to come out on saturday,
    I would have been there in time for this sillyness, would have been my first LEO interaction too!
    Instead I had a plumbing/flooding disaster under my kitchen sink!
    Glad you got some friendly company, and Glad you all stood your ground with the rude ranger!
    well done!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I was happy to see your invite to sit by the fire and I did intend to come out on saturday,
    I would have been there in time for this sillyness, would have been my first LEO interaction too!
    Instead I had a plumbing/flooding disaster under my kitchen sink!
    Glad you got some friendly company, and Glad you all stood your ground with the rude ranger!
    well done!!
    I was hoping you would see the invite, Bob, next time please.
    Live Free or Die!

  6. #6
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Kitsap County
    Posts
    872
    Gale everyone stood up for themselves its always easier in a crowd. I wish I could have been there nothing makes a cop madder than someone who actually knows the law I can only imagine how irritated she got when you all quoted a few RCWs and then chose to remain silent lol. Thanks for sending the park ranger a message for all of us
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  7. #7
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Yelm, Washington USA
    Posts
    419

    Thumbs up

    Man wish you had gotten this whole thing on audio.... definately time to file a formal complaint after you get the FOIA reports.

    I would have hit the recorder the minute the ranger cruiser rolled up, since she was obvious about contacting you with no RAS of a crime.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  8. #8
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Pasco, WA, ,
    Posts
    489
    Well done. Too bad the recorder didn't start at the top, but hey who knew.

    I laughed pretty hard at the "Oh serious?" comment by LEO.

    Does she need cause to run your plates? I've always wondered that, especially since you were parked (legally I assume).
    Last edited by Stretch; 05-13-2012 at 10:47 PM.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Well done. Too bad the recorder didn't start at the top, but hey who knew.

    I laughed pretty hard at the "Oh serious?" comment by LEO.

    Does she need cause to run your plates? I've always wondered that, especially since you were parked (legally I assume).
    No, no cause needed. In public view, she can look for stolen cars all she wants. Now the real question is after she get's that information and perhaps the registered owners name. Can she, does she have the authority to run further checks on the registered owner. (There is no guarantee that the registered owner and the people she had interactions with are the same).
    Live Free or Die!

  10. #10
    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Henderson, Nevada
    Posts
    488
    Cool! The only flub is saying, "I don't consent to this encounter."

    You already consented.

    Great job.

  11. #11
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Pacific, WA
    Posts
    764
    It sucks you had your first interaction while camping. I hope you didn't let it ruin your weekend. I'm glad you guys stood your ground.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

  12. #12
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Nortonville, KY, USA
    Posts
    4,291
    Nothing more to add from me except that I wish I had quoted RCW 9.41.060 (exemptions to carrying concealed) which I am sure would have invoked her attitude even more....

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post
    Cool! The only flub is saying, "I don't consent to this encounter."

    You already consented.

    Great job.
    Listen carefully, I said "I no longer consent to this conversation"

    You are correct, we did consent to answering some questions. Such as, 'Hey we got a complaint that another camper saw your firearms and I just wanted to stop by and say hello. How is your weekend going? Have a nice night'. No request for ID, no request for a CPL, nada, none.... At the point where that was not going to be the case I revoked my consent, asserted my right to remain silent and terminated the encounter. All things that SCOTUS has asserted. Once I give consent, I can revoke it at anytime.
    Live Free or Die!

  14. #14
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,086
    IIRC, plates only need be visible while on public roads....

    A simple rag thrown over the plate would've thwarted her, then you could've gotten her on an illegal search.

    I would no doubt believe she'd try to ticket you for it anyway, or try some 'obstruction' charge, but it'd all be BS.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    IIRC, plates only need be visible while on public roads....

    A simple rag thrown over the plate would've thwarted her, then you could've gotten her on an illegal search.

    I would no doubt believe she'd try to ticket you for it anyway, or try some 'obstruction' charge, but it'd all be BS.
    The thought did cross my mind, but we did not have enough time. I have also thought about creating a trust and registering my vehicle under the name of a trust.
    Live Free or Die!

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long gone
    Posts
    2,575

    I have been thinking about getting one of these


  17. #17
    Regular Member TheDavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Auburn, wa
    Posts
    32
    Well done guys!

  18. #18
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    She probably went home that night and took it all out on her husband or boyfriend. He ended up paying for your stubbornness.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    The thought did cross my mind, but we did not have enough time. I have also thought about creating a trust and registering my vehicle under the name of a trust.
    Good job standing up for the rights guys.

    A thought crossed my mind though. Since it wasn't on public property and you were renting your campground and she had no PC/RS to run you guys, does the public view rule for plates count. Unless she stood off your campground to run the plates? Just wondering.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,327
    SVG, "wasn't on public property"? This was in a state park.

  21. #21
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,086
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Good job standing up for the rights guys.

    A thought crossed my mind though. Since it wasn't on public property and you were renting your campground and she had no PC/RS to run you guys, does the public view rule for plates count. Unless she stood off your campground to run the plates? Just wondering.
    If they were visible from the road, plain view doctrine comes into play.

    If she had to enter the 'rental property' to get the tags, then it might be an issue... but I'm not an attorney so...
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Tacoma
    Posts
    189
    Running plates doesn't require RS/PC. Nor does it require notification. It's an unconstitutional means of search as well as a tax collection and enforcement tool.

    Odds are, she said she was going to run your plates as a means of reasserting her LE authority on you. If she really thought that any of you were BGs, she would have run the plates before even initiating a conversation.
    What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

    I believe in freedom, Mr. Lipwig. Not many people do, although they will, of course, protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.

    The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail. - Going Postal, Terry Pratchett

  23. #23
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,086
    Quote Originally Posted by kparker View Post
    SVG, "wasn't on public property"? This was in a state park.
    But they were 'renting' it, which makes it theirs, and subject to a privacy interest.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Tacoma
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    But they were 'renting' it, which makes it theirs, and subject to a privacy interest.
    When it comes to National Parks, you lease access and pay for usage privileges, not real estate.
    What sort of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

    I believe in freedom, Mr. Lipwig. Not many people do, although they will, of course, protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.

    The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail. - Going Postal, Terry Pratchett

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    1,552

    Thumbs up

    Well played.

    My favorite was when you asserted your right to end the consensual encounter, and wished her a good day. Her response: "Oh, serious?!? Really?"

    Priceless! Uptight <bleep> gets owned!
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Books are overrated; and so is history.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •