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Fort Worden State Park, Park Ranger interaction (gogodawgs first LE interaction)

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
While sitting at our campsite at Fort Worden State Park, #5, Saturday afternoon and enjoying the beautiful North West afternoon with Jim, Bill and Barb (Deros, M1gunr, Mrs. M1Gunr and gogodawgs) we were visited by a Washington State Park Ranger. She exited her truck and came over to our campsite where we were sitting around a soon to be used fire pit. She approached right behind my chair, over my right shoulder, between Jim and I. She asked if she could ask us a few questions.

At this time Bill, Jim and I were carrying our pistols in the open. Jim and I had arrived about 24 hours before. Due to a mix up we were put up in spot #5 by a great park employee, Tina. We ended up in the handicap accessible spot about 10 paces from the restrooms. For the first day Jim and I spent most of our time setting up, sitting by the fire, and driving around town. Both of us took a couple of trips to the restrooms. We enjoyed dinner by the fire and each had an adult beverage as the sun set and the temperatures cooled. The camp chairs didn’t lend much for anyone’s views of our sidearms.

The back of my trailer and our campsite was to our only neighbor and not many people paid us much attention.

After we answered the park ranger that we were willing to answer a few questions she began. “I know all about your rights and all, but we received a complaint that you had your firearms. And if we receive a complaint then you must cover them up, so I was hoping you would just tuck them in.” To which Bill replied that open carry was legal in Washington and no license was required. The ranger responded that she was aware of that, but wanted us to cover. We all stated that we wouldn’t, both verbally and by shaking my head no. Then the ranger asked if she could see our ID’s. We all politely declined. Bill and Jim reiterated that neither license nor ID was required to open carry in Washington.

All this time I am infuriated that my quite time is being interrupted by this police officer (WA Park Rangers are commissioned and dispatched by the Washington State Patrol), we stated our case, she ignored our request to be left alone and unidentified yet the ranger remained at our campsite. There is no crime, no reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has taken place or is afoot. There is no probable cause as to a felony has taken place. Yet she continues her line of questioning. Ugh.

(Audio starts about here) I only got the last 1:30 of an approximately 3 minute conversation.

She continues, “do you have a license?” We all refuse to answer and restate that none is required. We are not concealing. “But, do you?” I state at this time that I do not consent to this encounter and wish to be left alone.

At this time I can see that other than giving up my 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 4[SUP]th[/SUP] and 5[SUP]th[/SUP] amendment rights to this law enforcement officer, she will not be satisfied.
I state, “at this time I am invoking my right to be silent.” She turns to Jim and then Bill asking them if they are invoking their right to remain silent as well. They confirm and she then, and clearly frustrated that these 3 law abiding citizens will not commit to her state appointed power. There is a brief pause and then she states, “well I will just run your plates…” as if it is some sort of threat. We all remain silent as she walks a few feet to my Jeep and Bill’s Honda. She presumably writes down our plate numbers, gets in her truck and drives off towards the loop. I see her stop for a few minutes, presumably to call in our plates, before driving off and leaving.
We don’t see from her or have personal contact with any rangers the remainder of the day nor Sunday. With the exception of a bike patrol ranger who went through the campground about an hour after she left.

I will be following up with a FOI request and further commentary and some suggestions to the State Park Rangers that they inform the complainants that open carry is legal.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
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Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
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in front of my computer, WI
That sounds really annoying.
Definitely contact the agency.
She didn't ID herself, so they'll have to go from logs of who was on duty & your description.
You were not doing anything illegal, so there's no reason for her contact.
And yes, she could simply have told the complainant that OC is legal & there's no reason for her to waste time contacting you.
 

1245A Defender

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Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
well, darn!!!

I was happy to see your invite to sit by the fire and I did intend to come out on saturday,
I would have been there in time for this sillyness, would have been my first LEO interaction too!
Instead I had a plumbing/flooding disaster under my kitchen sink!
Glad you got some friendly company, and Glad you all stood your ground with the rude ranger!
well done!!
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
I was happy to see your invite to sit by the fire and I did intend to come out on saturday,
I would have been there in time for this sillyness, would have been my first LEO interaction too!
Instead I had a plumbing/flooding disaster under my kitchen sink!
Glad you got some friendly company, and Glad you all stood your ground with the rude ranger!
well done!!

I was hoping you would see the invite, Bob, next time please. ;)
 

fire suppressor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
870
Location
Kitsap County
Gale everyone stood up for themselves its always easier in a crowd. I wish I could have been there nothing makes a cop madder than someone who actually knows the law I can only imagine how irritated she got when you all quoted a few RCWs and then chose to remain silent lol. Thanks for sending the park ranger a message for all of us
 

Schlepnier

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
420
Location
Yelm, Washington USA
Man wish you had gotten this whole thing on audio.... definately time to file a formal complaint after you get the FOIA reports.

I would have hit the recorder the minute the ranger cruiser rolled up, since she was obvious about contacting you with no RAS of a crime.
 

Stretch

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
489
Location
Pasco, WA, ,
Well done. Too bad the recorder didn't start at the top, but hey who knew.

I laughed pretty hard at the "Oh serious?" comment by LEO.

Does she need cause to run your plates? I've always wondered that, especially since you were parked (legally I assume).
 
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gogodawgs

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Oct 25, 2009
Messages
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Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Well done. Too bad the recorder didn't start at the top, but hey who knew.

I laughed pretty hard at the "Oh serious?" comment by LEO.

Does she need cause to run your plates? I've always wondered that, especially since you were parked (legally I assume).

No, no cause needed. In public view, she can look for stolen cars all she wants. Now the real question is after she get's that information and perhaps the registered owners name. Can she, does she have the authority to run further checks on the registered owner. (There is no guarantee that the registered owner and the people she had interactions with are the same).
 

decklin

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Sep 2, 2011
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758
Location
Pacific, WA
It sucks you had your first interaction while camping. I hope you didn't let it ruin your weekend. I'm glad you guys stood your ground.
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
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4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
Nothing more to add from me except that I wish I had quoted RCW 9.41.060 (exemptions to carrying concealed) which I am sure would have invoked her attitude even more....
 

gogodawgs

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Oct 25, 2009
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Federal Way, Washington, USA
Cool! The only flub is saying, "I don't consent to this encounter."

You already consented. ;)

Great job.

Listen carefully, I said "I no longer consent to this conversation"

You are correct, we did consent to answering some questions. Such as, 'Hey we got a complaint that another camper saw your firearms and I just wanted to stop by and say hello. How is your weekend going? Have a nice night'. No request for ID, no request for a CPL, nada, none.... At the point where that was not going to be the case I revoked my consent, asserted my right to remain silent and terminated the encounter. All things that SCOTUS has asserted. Once I give consent, I can revoke it at anytime.
 

TechnoWeenie

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IIRC, plates only need be visible while on public roads....

A simple rag thrown over the plate would've thwarted her, then you could've gotten her on an illegal search.

I would no doubt believe she'd try to ticket you for it anyway, or try some 'obstruction' charge, but it'd all be BS.
 

gogodawgs

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Oct 25, 2009
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5,669
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Federal Way, Washington, USA
IIRC, plates only need be visible while on public roads....

A simple rag thrown over the plate would've thwarted her, then you could've gotten her on an illegal search.

I would no doubt believe she'd try to ticket you for it anyway, or try some 'obstruction' charge, but it'd all be BS.

The thought did cross my mind, but we did not have enough time. I have also thought about creating a trust and registering my vehicle under the name of a trust.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
The thought did cross my mind, but we did not have enough time. I have also thought about creating a trust and registering my vehicle under the name of a trust.

Good job standing up for the rights guys.

A thought crossed my mind though. Since it wasn't on public property and you were renting your campground and she had no PC/RS to run you guys, does the public view rule for plates count. Unless she stood off your campground to run the plates? Just wondering.
 
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