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Thread: Recommendation on Carry...

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    Recommendation on Carry...

    Hey Guys,

    So... I am new to the forum, and after reading some valuable information on here today, I figured I would create an account. First off, I appreciate what you are all doing here, and think this is a great resource - THANK YOU!

    Here is my situation and question:
    I have had my CT permit now for about 2 years. Over that time period, I have always exercised carrying my firearm, but I have always done so concealed. I carry concealed because I have heard stories about people being charged with breach of peace, etc just because a normal citizen was uncomfortable with seeing an OC permit holder. The extend of this being true for going about normal nature and not causing a scene, I don't know.

    Here is my dilemma. A lot of my clothes don't fit lose enough that it is easy to conceal carry, and more often than not I worry my firearm is printing under my clothes. To me, this presents a bigger problem than just open carrying because if by some stroke of luck an ordinary person sees this, I would think it is more frightening (and sketchy) and then seeing someone with it visibly on their side and not hiding it.

    Without having to rearrange my wardrobe so that I have clothing better suited for concealed carry and not seeing any marks on my clothes, do you recommend I continue doing what I am doing, or exercise my right to open carry? I am comfortable with doing this if I can be confident I won't lose my permit because some ill-informed person calls the police at the sight of a gun.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    You can and should carry however you want.

    There is no such thing as 'concealed carry' in Connecticut under the law because there is no such definition.
    You may have heard rumors of people being harassed for carrying openly, but you were likely not told how rare those occurrences are and what the result of those incidents tend to be.

    http://withregardstorights.com

    There are people carrying unconcealed all over the state everyday. Negative incidents are extraordinarily rare. It is simply not true by any kind of empirical evidence that people become alarmed or panicked at the sight of someone carrying unconcealed.

    Regardless of your carry choice, you should make sure you have a very thorough understanding of the laws of Connecticut.

    A good class to get started would be Rights, Responsibilities and Mindset (http://ctcarry.com/Training/RightsRe...ilitiesMindset).

    It is certainly possible to run into hassle or even arrest when carrying openly, but the last arrest was 5/16/2010 and the charges were immediately dismissed. The case is now being litigated in Federal Court.

    Since then more and more people (including police officers) are carrying unconcealed without issue.

    Get informed, carry how you choose to.
    Last edited by Rich B; 05-14-2012 at 11:24 AM.
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  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    CT is a licensed open carry state, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because one should not be required to get a piece of paper to provide for their own defense.

    In your case carry as you will - it is the absolute expression of freedom of choice.

    BTW - welcome to OCDO where we support, promote, and defend the freedom to chose and exercise this right to OC. Normal people going through their daily lives responsibly.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-14-2012 at 11:25 AM. Reason: typo
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    Regular Member BFDMikeCT's Avatar
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    I am having the same dilemma also. I actually asked a Bridgeport cop today about open carry. While she said it is legal they advise to conceal as best you can. When asked about shirt not covering when I lift my arms or move she said not a big deal if it shows. She also said cops might still get called and we might get asked for ID ( to me this is a problem as I don't have time to get interrogated most of the time)would like better if PD told called that they are label to carry and that alone is not a hazard. Not sure what is best. Where do you live?

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    Regular Member BFDMikeCT's Avatar
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    If at all possible maybe a open carry event/meet and greet could be arranged in Fairfield county. Not sure where everyone lives.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDMikeCT View Post
    I am having the same dilemma also. I actually asked a Bridgeport cop today about open carry. While she said it is legal they advise to conceal as best you can. When asked about shirt not covering when I lift my arms or move she said not a big deal if it shows. She also said cops might still get called and we might get asked for ID ( to me this is a problem as I don't have time to get interrogated most of the time)would like better if PD told called that they are label to carry and that alone is not a hazard. Not sure what is best. Where do you live?
    First rule: Don't ask police for legal advice.

    The police can ask for your ID anytime or all the time regardless of how you carry. The important part is that they don't have the power to demand it unless they have RAS of a crime. Carrying unconcealed is not RAS of a crime.

    In over two years of carrying unconcealed on a regular basis, I had the police called twice and things have gotten a lot better since then. Not sure where people get this impression that the police would constantly be getting called. If that is happening, I would venture a guess that the problem might be something other than the holstered firearm on your hip.

    There is already at least one person carrying unconcealed regularly around Bridgeport with only one minor police interaction (stop and ID) that I am aware of.
    Last edited by Rich B; 05-14-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDMikeCT View Post
    If at all possible maybe a open carry event/meet and greet could be arranged in Fairfield county. Not sure where everyone lives.
    You are going to find that the issue gets better quality attention by not utilizing events and rather just carrying openly as you go about your day to day business.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Thanks for the input guys. Also, I live just north of Hartford.

    Not sure when it was, but one of the guys that used to work at Hoffman's (he may still work there) was arrested for open carry while picking up food in a restaurant in Glastonbury. I think they hit him for Breach of Peace... that was the story I heard from someone a ways back. Not sure how true or accurate that is.

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    Regular Member BFDMikeCT's Avatar
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    Rich, I have heard on here before about cops and legal advice. The conversation started cause I was simply asking is she was aware of the open carry in CT. Then she elaborated further on other items.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical_Evo View Post
    Thanks for the input guys. Also, I live just north of Hartford.

    Not sure when it was, but one of the guys that used to work at Hoffman's (he may still work there) was arrested for open carry while picking up food in a restaurant in Glastonbury. I think they hit him for Breach of Peace... that was the story I heard from someone a ways back. Not sure how true or accurate that is.
    That was the James Goldberg case. His charges were dismissed and he unsuccessfully (so far) sued the Glastonbury police department for his false arrest.

    The judges ruled that carrying unconcealed at the time of his arrest (2007) was not well established in law and therefore the officers were 'reasonable' in detaining and arresting Mr. Goldberg.


    To say that 5 years later with all of the police departments and officers that are fully aware of open carry and all of the departments issuing training memos to not arrest open carriers would be absurd.



    But again, you are quoting a 5 year old case when I provided you a lot of reading material about much more recent cases.

    With sources like DPS, Torrington PD, Wethersfield PD and the BFPE all saying unequivocally that there is no requirement under law to carry concealed, I am not sure where the issue lies. It should be clear from the BFPE audio that this is not an issue and if the PD somehow was malicious enough to get your permit revoked (doubtful), your permit would be reinstated upon appeal with prejudice.
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDMikeCT View Post
    Rich, I have heard on here before about cops and legal advice. The conversation started cause I was simply asking is she was aware of the open carry in CT. Then she elaborated further on other items.
    Understood. Just make sure you forget everything she told you and don't use it as a source. It is not worth the price you paid for it, and it can actually be harmful.

    Do your own research, read the sources provided. Hire an attorney to give you advice if you need to.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Thank you Rich!

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    While I am going to continue to read further, and educate myself, I must ask one thing:

    Why would you not provide your permit to an officer if they asked to see it (outside of you not having to based on CGS)? Can they use this against you somehow if you provide it to them? If you refuse to show your state carry permit, are you then obligated to show any other form of ID (such as a driver's license)?

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical_Evo View Post
    While I am going to continue to read further, and educate myself, I must ask one thing:

    Why would you not provide your permit to an officer if they asked to see it (outside of you not having to based on CGS)? Can they use this against you somehow if you provide it to them? If you refuse to show your state carry permit, are you then obligated to show any other form of ID (such as a driver's license)?
    Connecticut is not a stop and ID state. You only have an obligation to provide a driver's license if you are operating a motor vehicle.

    The choice of whether or not to supply ID is a personal one. You may experience good or bad results with either decision. Some police may decide to arrest for interfering with an officer or some other bogus charge if you deny the request for ID. Understanding RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion), PC (probable cause) and Terry v Ohio will go far in helping open carriers understand the limits of police power and where their rights begin and end.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Connecticut is not a stop and ID state. You only have an obligation to provide a driver's license if you are operating a motor vehicle.

    The choice of whether or not to supply ID is a personal one. You may experience good or bad results with either decision. Some police may decide to arrest for interfering with an officer or some other bogus charge if you deny the request for ID. Understanding RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion), PC (probable cause) and Terry v Ohio will go far in helping open carriers understand the limits of police power and where their rights begin and end.
    So, without providing the ID, how can officers know if you are a person who can be legally carrying?

    ...And if I did provide the ID - can these be used against me somehow?

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical_Evo View Post
    So, without providing the ID, how can officers know if you are a person who can be legally carrying?
    In this country we are innocent until proven guilty. The law provides the question would actually be: Why would an officer believe someone who is simply carrying a firearm unconcealed to be committing a crime?

    ...And if I did provide the ID - can these be used against me somehow?
    Anything is possible. Logically speaking, if they have your info, they could use it against you. If they don't have your info, they cannot.

    I have no references to show that anyone who has been stopped and IDed by the police for open carry has had future negative issues. I can tell you that when I provided ID during my detainment in Old Saybrook, the OSPD saw fit to list in the records they keep on people that I was stopped that day for a 'weapons violation'.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    In this country we are innocent until proven guilty. The law provides the question would actually be: Why would an officer believe someone who is simply carrying a firearm unconcealed to be committing a crime?



    Anything is possible. Logically speaking, if they have your info, they could use it against you. If they don't have your info, they cannot.

    I have no references to show that anyone who has been stopped and IDed by the police for open carry has had future negative issues. I can tell you that when I provided ID during my detainment in Old Saybrook, the OSPD saw fit to list in the records they keep on people that I was stopped that day for a 'weapons violation'.
    Ahhh... This is what I was getting at ^. Good to know. Thanks again for your knowledge! Always enjoy learning something new!

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    Rich,

    I've been doing some reading, and have a question. In the GSC 29-28e, the statues say: "The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises."

    Where specifically is it illegal to carry a handgun? I thought it was any government building, schools, and bars. ...This is what I was taught in my NRA pistol course anyhow. Yet, I was reading through one of your posts and it said you had open carried into a police department. Does this not constitute a government building? Or does it not matter, and I am ignorant of the law?

    Thanks again!

  19. #19
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical_Evo View Post
    I thought it was any government building, schools, and bars.
    Where did you get this information?

    This is what I was taught in my NRA pistol course anyhow.
    Who was your instructor?

    Yet, I was reading through one of your posts and it said you had open carried into a police department. Does this not constitute a government building? Or does it not matter, and I am ignorant of the law?
    You have been misinformed. There is no such law.


    It is illegal to carry in schools, yes. It is illegal to carry in FEDERAL buildings. It is perfectly legal to carry inside a state building as long as it is not marked 'no firearms'. It is perfectly legal to carry in a bar or restaurant.

    It is of course, as the statute specifies, illegal to carry anywhere the property owner prohibits you to carry.

    We need to get to the bottom of where this kind of bad information is coming from.

    As far as carrying into a police station:
    http://withregardstorights.com/post/...nin-to-do.aspx
    Last edited by Rich B; 05-18-2012 at 05:20 PM.
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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Who was your instructor?
    It wasn't me!!!
    Member:, NRA Patron Life, NSSF, CCDL, CT Carry, MRPC and Bell City
    NRA Certified Instructor, Chief Range Safety Officer - Basic Pistol, Home Firearm Safety, Metallic Cartridge/Shotgun Shell Reloading - www.ctpistolpermit.com

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    I (and a couple of friends) attended a class at Center Sports in Columbia, and we were told this info regarding where we couldn't carry.

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    Its getting harder to defend but for a long time nobody knew OC was legal and there was alot of other missinformation out there. People didnt know I think, so made up things that made sense to them or were the law someplace else. That happened long enough that we just believed it. I think the internet more than anything else let the word get out. I know I never would have ever looked up statutes & ordinances or tracked legislation like I can now. Contact with legislators themselves & trying to know what they were doing was tough. Now, with places like this info is disseminated easy & efficiently. Not sure if Rich remembers but I thought sure he'd be getting arrested & the OCers getting headlines. But its just no big deal.
    The stuff about bars & PDs I think is just like concealed carry was. But theres no excuse anymore for instructors to not know. Not in my opinion anyway, I can understand some unconnected people not being up to date, but if your going to teach & talk about the laws you need to pay attention.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leverdude View Post
    Not sure if Rich remembers but I thought sure he'd be getting arrested & the OCers getting headlines. But its just no big deal.
    Well you were partially right ;-)

    But really, OC really is 'no big deal'.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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  24. #24
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical_Evo View Post
    I (and a couple of friends) attended a class at Center Sports in Columbia, and we were told this info regarding where we couldn't carry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leverdude View Post
    The stuff about bars & PDs I think is just like concealed carry was. But theres no excuse anymore for instructors to not know. Not in my opinion anyway, I can understand some unconnected people not being up to date, but if your going to teach & talk about the laws you need to pay attention.
    Well, you couldn't be more correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://centersportsct.com/html/nra_pistol_course.html
    We offer the NRA Pistol Safety Course on Sundays. This class is needed to obtain a Connecticut Concealed Carry Permit.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

  25. #25
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    We have sent an email to them.

    Greetings,
    I am receiving reports that students in your classes are taught a few points that are at issue with the laws of Connecticut and I am hoping to address them with you.

    Issues:
    1) Connecticut has a 'concealed carry permit'.
    2) It is illegal to carry in a government building.
    3) It is illegal to carry in a bar.

    Corrections:
    1) Connecticut is not a concealed carry state. Our laws have no concealment requirement and do not have language or definitions for concealment. Therefore, the choice of whether or not to conceal a firearm is purely a personal choice. There are lots of people (myself included) who have carried unconcealed all over Connecticut for years as a matter of routine. This is mentioned on your website as well: http://centersportsct.com/html/nra_pistol_course.html
    You can learn more about our lack of concealment requirements here: http://ctcarry.com/Permits/Unconcealed

    2) It is not necessarily illegal to carry in a 'government' building. It is against Federal law to carry on the property of a Federal building (perfect example being USPS). It is against state law to carry into any building where the legislature meets (Capitol, LOB), and if you are a state worker or contractor for the state, you may not carry on state owned property. There is also a DEP regulation against carry into state parks. Other state property is fine to carry in (DMVs for instance), and there are a lot of those places.

    3) It is not at all illegal to carry into a bar (concealed or otherwise). The only law even close to this is carrying while intoxicated and it allows for a BAC of .10 which is higher than our DUI laws.

    I hope you will consider working with us to get the correct information out there. We offer lots of resources to help both trainers and permit applicants/holders to get better educated on the laws in Connecticut, including our website: http://ctcarry.com

    Most of the information above should be covered under 'Common Questions'. We can also offer free one on one support for any of your staff to help with any questions or issues that they may have.

    Thank you,
    Rich Burgess
    President
    Connecticut Carry, Inc
    Ph: 203.208.9577
    http://ctcarry.com
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

    Join us and discuss the issues: http://ctcarry.com/Forum

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