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Recommendation on Carry...

Tactical_Evo

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
40
Location
CT
Hey Guys,

So... I am new to the forum, and after reading some valuable information on here today, I figured I would create an account. First off, I appreciate what you are all doing here, and think this is a great resource - THANK YOU!

Here is my situation and question:
I have had my CT permit now for about 2 years. Over that time period, I have always exercised carrying my firearm, but I have always done so concealed. I carry concealed because I have heard stories about people being charged with breach of peace, etc just because a normal citizen was uncomfortable with seeing an OC permit holder. The extend of this being true for going about normal nature and not causing a scene, I don't know.

Here is my dilemma. A lot of my clothes don't fit lose enough that it is easy to conceal carry, and more often than not I worry my firearm is printing under my clothes. To me, this presents a bigger problem than just open carrying because if by some stroke of luck an ordinary person sees this, I would think it is more frightening (and sketchy) and then seeing someone with it visibly on their side and not hiding it.

Without having to rearrange my wardrobe so that I have clothing better suited for concealed carry and not seeing any marks on my clothes, do you recommend I continue doing what I am doing, or exercise my right to open carry? I am comfortable with doing this if I can be confident I won't lose my permit because some ill-informed person calls the police at the sight of a gun.

Thanks!
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
You can and should carry however you want.

There is no such thing as 'concealed carry' in Connecticut under the law because there is no such definition.
You may have heard rumors of people being harassed for carrying openly, but you were likely not told how rare those occurrences are and what the result of those incidents tend to be.

http://withregardstorights.com

There are people carrying unconcealed all over the state everyday. Negative incidents are extraordinarily rare. It is simply not true by any kind of empirical evidence that people become alarmed or panicked at the sight of someone carrying unconcealed.

Regardless of your carry choice, you should make sure you have a very thorough understanding of the laws of Connecticut.

A good class to get started would be Rights, Responsibilities and Mindset (http://ctcarry.com/Training/RightsResponsibilitiesMindset).

It is certainly possible to run into hassle or even arrest when carrying openly, but the last arrest was 5/16/2010 and the charges were immediately dismissed. The case is now being litigated in Federal Court.

Since then more and more people (including police officers) are carrying unconcealed without issue.

Get informed, carry how you choose to.
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
CT is a licensed open carry state, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because one should not be required to get a piece of paper to provide for their own defense.

In your case carry as you will - it is the absolute expression of freedom of choice.

BTW - welcome to OCDO where we support, promote, and defend the freedom to chose and exercise this right to OC. Normal people going through their daily lives responsibly.
 
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BFDMikeCT

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
58
Location
Bridgeport, CT
I am having the same dilemma also. I actually asked a Bridgeport cop today about open carry. While she said it is legal they advise to conceal as best you can. When asked about shirt not covering when I lift my arms or move she said not a big deal if it shows. She also said cops might still get called and we might get asked for ID ( to me this is a problem as I don't have time to get interrogated most of the time)would like better if PD told called that they are label to carry and that alone is not a hazard. Not sure what is best. Where do you live?
 

BFDMikeCT

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
58
Location
Bridgeport, CT
If at all possible maybe a open carry event/meet and greet could be arranged in Fairfield county. Not sure where everyone lives.
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
I am having the same dilemma also. I actually asked a Bridgeport cop today about open carry. While she said it is legal they advise to conceal as best you can. When asked about shirt not covering when I lift my arms or move she said not a big deal if it shows. She also said cops might still get called and we might get asked for ID ( to me this is a problem as I don't have time to get interrogated most of the time)would like better if PD told called that they are label to carry and that alone is not a hazard. Not sure what is best. Where do you live?

First rule: Don't ask police for legal advice.

The police can ask for your ID anytime or all the time regardless of how you carry. The important part is that they don't have the power to demand it unless they have RAS of a crime. Carrying unconcealed is not RAS of a crime.

In over two years of carrying unconcealed on a regular basis, I had the police called twice and things have gotten a lot better since then. Not sure where people get this impression that the police would constantly be getting called. If that is happening, I would venture a guess that the problem might be something other than the holstered firearm on your hip.

There is already at least one person carrying unconcealed regularly around Bridgeport with only one minor police interaction (stop and ID) that I am aware of.
 
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Tactical_Evo

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
40
Location
CT
Thanks for the input guys. Also, I live just north of Hartford.

Not sure when it was, but one of the guys that used to work at Hoffman's (he may still work there) was arrested for open carry while picking up food in a restaurant in Glastonbury. I think they hit him for Breach of Peace... that was the story I heard from someone a ways back. Not sure how true or accurate that is.
 

BFDMikeCT

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
58
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Rich, I have heard on here before about cops and legal advice. The conversation started cause I was simply asking is she was aware of the open carry in CT. Then she elaborated further on other items.
 

Rich B

Regular Member
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Oct 13, 2009
Messages
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Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
Thanks for the input guys. Also, I live just north of Hartford.

Not sure when it was, but one of the guys that used to work at Hoffman's (he may still work there) was arrested for open carry while picking up food in a restaurant in Glastonbury. I think they hit him for Breach of Peace... that was the story I heard from someone a ways back. Not sure how true or accurate that is.

That was the James Goldberg case. His charges were dismissed and he unsuccessfully (so far) sued the Glastonbury police department for his false arrest.

The judges ruled that carrying unconcealed at the time of his arrest (2007) was not well established in law and therefore the officers were 'reasonable' in detaining and arresting Mr. Goldberg.


To say that 5 years later with all of the police departments and officers that are fully aware of open carry and all of the departments issuing training memos to not arrest open carriers would be absurd.



But again, you are quoting a 5 year old case when I provided you a lot of reading material about much more recent cases.

With sources like DPS, Torrington PD, Wethersfield PD and the BFPE all saying unequivocally that there is no requirement under law to carry concealed, I am not sure where the issue lies. It should be clear from the BFPE audio that this is not an issue and if the PD somehow was malicious enough to get your permit revoked (doubtful), your permit would be reinstated upon appeal with prejudice.
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
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Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
Rich, I have heard on here before about cops and legal advice. The conversation started cause I was simply asking is she was aware of the open carry in CT. Then she elaborated further on other items.

Understood. Just make sure you forget everything she told you and don't use it as a source. It is not worth the price you paid for it, and it can actually be harmful.

Do your own research, read the sources provided. Hire an attorney to give you advice if you need to.
 

Tactical_Evo

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
40
Location
CT
While I am going to continue to read further, and educate myself, I must ask one thing:

Why would you not provide your permit to an officer if they asked to see it (outside of you not having to based on CGS)? Can they use this against you somehow if you provide it to them? If you refuse to show your state carry permit, are you then obligated to show any other form of ID (such as a driver's license)?
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
While I am going to continue to read further, and educate myself, I must ask one thing:

Why would you not provide your permit to an officer if they asked to see it (outside of you not having to based on CGS)? Can they use this against you somehow if you provide it to them? If you refuse to show your state carry permit, are you then obligated to show any other form of ID (such as a driver's license)?

Connecticut is not a stop and ID state. You only have an obligation to provide a driver's license if you are operating a motor vehicle.

The choice of whether or not to supply ID is a personal one. You may experience good or bad results with either decision. Some police may decide to arrest for interfering with an officer or some other bogus charge if you deny the request for ID. Understanding RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion), PC (probable cause) and Terry v Ohio will go far in helping open carriers understand the limits of police power and where their rights begin and end.
 

Tactical_Evo

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
40
Location
CT
Connecticut is not a stop and ID state. You only have an obligation to provide a driver's license if you are operating a motor vehicle.

The choice of whether or not to supply ID is a personal one. You may experience good or bad results with either decision. Some police may decide to arrest for interfering with an officer or some other bogus charge if you deny the request for ID. Understanding RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion), PC (probable cause) and Terry v Ohio will go far in helping open carriers understand the limits of police power and where their rights begin and end.

So, without providing the ID, how can officers know if you are a person who can be legally carrying?

...And if I did provide the ID - can these be used against me somehow?
 

Rich B

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Messages
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North Branford, Connecticut, USA
So, without providing the ID, how can officers know if you are a person who can be legally carrying?

In this country we are innocent until proven guilty. The law provides the question would actually be: Why would an officer believe someone who is simply carrying a firearm unconcealed to be committing a crime?

...And if I did provide the ID - can these be used against me somehow?

Anything is possible. Logically speaking, if they have your info, they could use it against you. If they don't have your info, they cannot.

I have no references to show that anyone who has been stopped and IDed by the police for open carry has had future negative issues. I can tell you that when I provided ID during my detainment in Old Saybrook, the OSPD saw fit to list in the records they keep on people that I was stopped that day for a 'weapons violation'.
 

Tactical_Evo

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
40
Location
CT
In this country we are innocent until proven guilty. The law provides the question would actually be: Why would an officer believe someone who is simply carrying a firearm unconcealed to be committing a crime?



Anything is possible. Logically speaking, if they have your info, they could use it against you. If they don't have your info, they cannot.

I have no references to show that anyone who has been stopped and IDed by the police for open carry has had future negative issues. I can tell you that when I provided ID during my detainment in Old Saybrook, the OSPD saw fit to list in the records they keep on people that I was stopped that day for a 'weapons violation'.

Ahhh... This is what I was getting at ^. Good to know. Thanks again for your knowledge! Always enjoy learning something new! :)
 

Tactical_Evo

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
40
Location
CT
Rich,

I've been doing some reading, and have a question. In the GSC 29-28e, the statues say: "The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises."

Where specifically is it illegal to carry a handgun? I thought it was any government building, schools, and bars. ...This is what I was taught in my NRA pistol course anyhow. Yet, I was reading through one of your posts and it said you had open carried into a police department. Does this not constitute a government building? Or does it not matter, and I am ignorant of the law?

Thanks again!
 

Rich B

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Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
I thought it was any government building, schools, and bars.

Where did you get this information?

This is what I was taught in my NRA pistol course anyhow.

Who was your instructor?

Yet, I was reading through one of your posts and it said you had open carried into a police department. Does this not constitute a government building? Or does it not matter, and I am ignorant of the law?

You have been misinformed. There is no such law.


It is illegal to carry in schools, yes. It is illegal to carry in FEDERAL buildings. It is perfectly legal to carry inside a state building as long as it is not marked 'no firearms'. It is perfectly legal to carry in a bar or restaurant.

It is of course, as the statute specifies, illegal to carry anywhere the property owner prohibits you to carry.

We need to get to the bottom of where this kind of bad information is coming from.

As far as carrying into a police station:
http://withregardstorights.com/post/2011/11/25/Old-Saybrook-has-some-learnin-to-do.aspx
 
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