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Thread: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animus View Post
    Somehow I've avoided police attention even though I look the same. My assailants have always been rednecks.
    Ok. Full-stop, right there.
    Rednecks? really, dude?
    1) you're in Tennessee- not exactly urban/hip-hop/metalhead/hippy territory, I'll give you that, but..
    2) Case in point, to your previous posts, above. Somehow you consider it ok to lump folks into a category you call "redneck", yet ,it's somehow objectionable ,to you for someone to say-or falsely claimed to have said -"coon".

    Break down the justifiable difference for me there, if you would.
    Granted, many "rednecks" will happily, and proudly declare themselves as such. But still- a white guy who..what? doesnt dress in hoodies, or try to mimmick current "urban" trendy attire? Or..what is your definition of such, and what justifaction do you claim for using a term some whites would consider somewhat "racist"

    (And, for the record, Im half-cherokee, and despite my metalhead-looking days, most folks would assume Im a redneck myself lately, just by appearances alone)
    Last edited by j4l; 05-19-2012 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #52
    Regular Member Animus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Ok. Full-stop, right there.
    Rednecks? really, dude?
    1) you're in Tennessee- not exactly urban/hip-hop/metalhead/hippy territory, I'll give you that, but..
    2) Case in point, to your previous posts, above. Somehow you consider it ok to lump folks into a category you call "redneck", yet ,it's somehow objectionable ,to you for someone to say-or falsely claimed to have said -"coon".

    Break down the justifiable difference for me there, if you would.
    Granted, many "rednecks" will happily, and proudly declare themselves as such. But still- a white guy who..what? doesnt dress in hoodies, or try to mimmick current "urban" trendy attire? Or..what is your definition of such, and what justifaction do you claim for using a term some whites would consider somewhat "racist"

    (And, for the record, Im half-cherokee, and despite my metalhead-looking days, most folks would assume Im a redneck myself lately, just by appearances alone)
    I'm specifically talking about the flannel-wearing, beer-drinking, rebel flag flying on their giant diesel truck, self-proclaimed rednecks. The subculture, not the insult. The insult would technically apply to me as well but only because I was born here, not from any resemblance to these people either physically or mentally.
    Last edited by Animus; 05-19-2012 at 04:55 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Yup redman they wanted your pot!

    I can usually quickly identify native Americans and part natives fairly quickly by their high cheekbones and asiatic features.

    I would never mistaken you for red neck.

    I really dont have many of the features one normally associates with an NA. Light-ish color hair, fair skin- most folks dont even have a clue. My sister, though. You'd swear she's full-blooded Cherokee. Go figure.
    Back in the day, no, you would not have pegged me as a redneck. Nowdays though..I dress most comfortably in roughly the same attire as most of my country surroundings fits. So many who dont know me would assume Im just another redneck out here in the sticks..

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animus View Post
    I'm specifically talking about the flannel-wearing, beer-drinking, rebel flag flying on their giant diesel truck, self-proclaimed rednecks. The subculture, not the insult. The insult would technically apply to me as well but only because I was born here, not from any resemblance to these people either physically or mentally.
    Then that I can understand. In context. Heck, I have my own labels from a list longer than I am tall, lol.
    I sometimes have to go the WalMart out here-(sadly, the only place like it for many miles of my area, so am stuck dealing with it ) and I've got a whole ton of labels for the inhabitants of that dreadful place...waiting in line there, I often contemplate swallowing my pistol, and just ending it right there, rather than be subjected to the sea of sub-humanity I find myself surrounded by...

    lol

  5. #55
    Regular Member Animus's Avatar
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    It's only obvious in me when I've been out in the sun. Somehow curly locks and a beard manage to camouflage high cheekbones rather well.
    Last edited by Animus; 05-19-2012 at 04:54 PM.

  6. #56
    Regular Member Animus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Then that I can understand. In context. Heck, I have my own labels from a list longer than I am tall, lol.
    I sometimes have to go the WalMart out here-(sadly, the only place like it for many miles of my area, so am stuck dealing with it ) and I've got a whole ton of labels for the inhabitants of that dreadful place...waiting in line there, I often contemplate swallowing my pistol, and just ending it right there, rather than be subjected to the sea of sub-humanity I find myself surrounded by...

    lol
    I do my best to avoid Walmart for similar reasons.
    Last edited by Animus; 05-19-2012 at 04:54 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animus View Post
    I do my best to avoid Walmart for similar reasons.
    When I am able to range out far enough to do so, I avoid it like the plague. I mean , seriously, I dont think I could cook up characters or situations for a SITCOM (or horror/zombie film) that could come close to a mere 20-minute stop at a Wal-Mart..

  8. #58
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    Zimmerman got his ass beat trying to play super hero. Regardless of the outcome he will be sued and lose all future earnings.
    If he would've did what he was told and not confront he wouldn't be in the mess he's in. He brought it on himself and now has to deal with it. We don't know anything about what happened that night. Noone will ever know unless a video emerges.

    We all know if the races were reversed the "he's innocent group" would be saying either he should get life or wouldn't care either way.
    Let's stop pretending skin color doesn't matter because it does to alot of people. Hopefully the future idiots of the country will not play superman because the next person they follow could have a ltc and send you to your maker..

  9. #59
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    You're absolutely right! Zimmerman didn't shoot Martin because Martin was going to kill, he did it because Martin was black!

    Clearly if Martin was hispanic, Zimmerman would have just laid there and let Martin kill him.

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  10. #60
    Regular Member Animus's Avatar
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    Try reading what he actually said.

  11. #61
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    From the way I understood it, according to recordings and what he told his father of the incident. He was already out of his vehicle, when the 911 dispatcher( not the cops) asked if he was following him. He replied yes, and the dispatcher said, "okay, we don't need you to do that". ( NOT EXACTLY AN ORDER TO RETURN TO YOUR CAR) The way he told his father, he quit pursuing and was headed to the end of the street to get the exact name of the street for the dispatcher. He had lost track of Martin's location by that point. That's when Martin came out from between two buildings and said, "what is your problem?" Zimmerman: "I don't have a problem", Martin: "You do now" .....fight begins. Like I said, that's the way I understood it.
    watch your top knot !

  12. #62
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaki View Post
    Zimmerman got his ass beat trying to play super hero. Regardless of the outcome he will be sued and lose all future earnings.
    Can you please elaborate how such lawsuits can happen under Florida's stand your ground law?

  13. #63
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    I imagine while Zimmerman was on the ground getting his head smacked off the concrete by Martin, he was thinking " Now I got him right where I want him".
    watch your top knot !

  14. #64
    Regular Member Animus's Avatar
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    This may just be my old training talking, but I for one wouldn't draw on someone while engaged in a fist fight. Now if your head's bouncing off the concrete, that is potentially life threatening so deadly force would be warranted--but I'm not sure if the armed variety would be justified. Meeting an unarmed threat with unarmed force seems to be an easier case to argue on the witness stand. I've already heard some ask why Zimmerman had to shoot him, why he couldn't just resolve the threat with equal force. Trayvon wasn't exactly built like a linebacker. To me Zimmerman looks like he could've stood toe to toe with him physically. Maybe he's just a bad fighter or never learned to defend from his back, idk. I'm just having trouble justifying shooting someone unarmed even if they're painting the sidewalk with my bodily fluids, but I guess that's the only option for someone unused to that type of thing.

  15. #65
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    The issue at trial will likely be "proportional response."

    Even though Z was getting his azz kicked, in a fair fight, that Z triggered, if indeed the case, then was his response proportional to the threat?

    We shall see.

    Who is going to be on the jury?

    If they are all black, Z is up the creek.
    I see where you made your first mistake (highlight). I suppose the presumption is that both Z,, and M in a fight without weapons is a 'fair' fight. You left out "disparity" of force, which in the case of M, who is 6'2" (approximately), and an athlete, on top of Z who is 5'8", and from what I can see in the photo, not exactly in good shape.

    Whether M was armed or not is irrelevant. You can still use deadly force against an opponent who is not armed, and it be justified.

    Another presumption in your response is that Z "triggered the fight." There is no evidence of that. What is at question here is not whether Z got out of his vehicle?; rather, who initiated the initial act of aggression?

    Z, under the spirit of Florida Law, will be found not-guilty; that's if the case goes to trial.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  16. #66
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animus View Post
    This may just be my old training talking, but I for one wouldn't draw on someone while engaged in a fist fight. Now if your head's bouncing off the concrete, that is potentially life threatening so deadly force would be warranted--but I'm not sure if the armed variety would be justified. Meeting an unarmed threat with unarmed force seems to be an easier case to argue on the witness stand. I've already heard some ask why Zimmerman had to shoot him, why he couldn't just resolve the threat with equal force. Trayvon wasn't exactly built like a linebacker. To me Zimmerman looks like he could've stood toe to toe with him physically. Maybe he's just a bad fighter or never learned to defend from his back, idk. I'm just having trouble justifying shooting someone unarmed even if they're painting the sidewalk with my bodily fluids, but I guess that's the only option for someone unused to that type of thing.
    Funny, you state that you wouldn't draw on someone while engaged in a fist fight, then continue on to state that your head being bounced off the concrete is potentially life threatening--talk about deciding to draw on someone after your in the thick of things.

    People, you can die from one strike, if your State Law permits it, or your Principles demand it, you draw before even one hair on your body has been harmed.

    Some people are so funny with abstract self-defense situations. Pontificating about when they would actually draw, and who is, and who is not a legitimate threat.

    I tell you what, you get into a fist-fight with your attacker, and hope that you don't get beaten to the point where they take your sidearm from you, then kill you with it; and I will draw on my attacker before they get within striking distance--I will warn them to not come any closer (multiple times, if I have the opportunity), and I will pull the trigger if they do not comply.

    BTW, if your training is referring to military, you are full of crap. In the military, you are trained to shoot first, and ask questions later; hell, the police are trained to do that as well.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post

    Funny, you state that you wouldn't draw on someone while engaged in a fist fight, then continue on to state that your head being bounced off the concrete is potentially life threatening--talk about deciding to draw on someone after your in the thick of things.

    People, you can die from one strike, if your State Law permits it, or your Principles demand it, you draw before even one hair on your body has been harmed.

    Some people are so funny with abstract self-defense situations. Pontificating about when they would actually draw, and who is, and who is not a legitimate threat.

    I tell you what, you get into a fist-fight with your attacker, and hope that you don't get beaten to the point where they take your sidearm from you, then kill you with it; and I will draw on my attacker before they get within striking distance--I will warn them to not come any closer (multiple times, if I have the opportunity), and I will pull the trigger if they do not comply.

    BTW, if your training is referring to military, you are full of crap. In the military, you are trained to shoot first, and ask questions later; hell, the police are trained to do that as well.

    Absolutely ^^^.
    Lot of macho-man wannabes out there, who may or may not have come out ok after a hand-to-hand scrap with someone in the past. But they should not take that outcome, and project it onto any potential future out-comes.
    One may well be confident in their physical condition, and their own skills/training (if any) in hand-to-hand actions. But, one should not assume that those elements (condition/training/experiences of the past) are going to apply to all situations.

    One thing is, you have no idea what skills or training the opponent has or doesnt have. You also do not know if that opponent has a knife or sidearm or other weapon concealed on thier person.

    A person trained in knife-fighting isnt going to clear leather until they are in close, and ready to strike, for example. You arent going to see that knife until it is plowing into you- if you ever see it at all.

    Bottom-line is, you cannot look at an opponent, and size-up whether you can or cannot "handle" them in a hand-to-hand fight, with any degree of certainty, at all. I've seen little Ranger Rgt. and even Detachment Delta fellows, who- out of uniform, may look like some kind of clerical nerd ,whomp the living crap out of guys 4x their size and weight bare-handed.
    Their opponents had certianly made the mistake of sizing them up, and deciding "oh ya, I can TAKE this little chump".

    So, while it may well feel-and look to others around you- like the "manly" thing to do, taking your chances in a hand-to-hand engagement on the street, with a stranger, may not be the wisest course of action, if you are armed, and have that option available to you, instead.

  18. #68
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    When you are talking about your life, there are no queensberry rules, no guessing if you can take him in a fist fight or whatever. You shouldn't have to. He has no right to put his hands on you. Also, there is always somebody out there, regardless of height and weight that can whip your ass. No matter how bad-ass an individual is. When you're talking about survival, anything goes!
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    The GFT (ground fighting tactics) that I was taught in the military are great if your train everyday on them and progress into higher levels. Our instructor who has been doing it for years is level 3 as a combative instructor and is quite impressive. Yet he has even stated that its only function is to keep you livelong enough for your battle to come to aid you and kill the person you are fighting. It is one thing to roll around on the mats or the shredded rubber to practice; it is a whole other struggle with full kit on. If you are on the ground fighting for your life, something has gone terrible wrong to begin with. The military has trained me to shoot first and to shoot for keeps. I always aim for the vital organs and if I am worried that, my shots may be ineffective to stop the target I do a double tap to the head and chest. What I have found to be effective while being deployed is you damn well fire more than two shots every time into a persons chest. I personally fire as accurately as possible and keep shooting till their body hits the ground. I have seen friends who drop a bad guy with two shots only for them to get right back up and return fire.
    Last edited by zack991; 05-20-2012 at 11:40 AM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    when you are talking about your life, there are no queensberry rules, no guessing if you can take him in a fist fight or whatever. You shouldn't have to. He has no right to put his hands on you. Also, there is always somebody out there, regardless of height and weight that can whip your ass. No matter how bad-ass an individual is. When you're talking about survival, anything goes!
    amen.

  21. #71
    Regular Member Animus's Avatar
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    The training I referred to was a year of mma. It's not about being macho, what happened to the levels of force? If you draw on someone you presume to be unarmed, you just escalated. What if the prosecution finds out about the course you took when you were 18 and successfully argues you didn't need your gun to defend yourself in that instance?

    I don't have my carry permit yet. My hands and feet and my hunting knife are all I have to protect myself at the moment, and they sufficed in the two cases they were needed so far, granted those guys didn't have guns.
    Last edited by Animus; 05-20-2012 at 03:42 PM.

  22. #72
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    What's higher than deadly force? Bare in mind that you have already admitted that Trayvon used deadly force. So what's beyond to escalate to? Zombie force? Heh

    No offense, but it sounds to me like you don't actually about what really happened. Rather you just want to believe that it was an unjustified shooting so as to support your chosen narrative of racism.

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  23. #73
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    Back in my younger days, I was a martial artist and part-time instructor. (first degree black belt) I went to Pittsburgh to check out different dojos. I went into one dojo and met a little asian guy that was a 7th degree black belt. He was a real nice guy but who's english was a little hard to understand. He asked if I wanted to go out on the mats and "practice a little". He told me to attack him. So I came at him, he blocked a few strikes, he came at me, I blocked a few strikes. Upon doing that, I was pretty proud of the fact that I just held my own against a 7th degree black belt. But that pride was short lived. Little did I know that he was just toying with me. He came back at me and I don't even know what he did. But I was on the mat with him on me like ugly on an ape. Twisted up like pretzel and couldn't breathe. He said,in broken english, "you breve"? I, with the very little breath I had left, said "huh?" He said again, "you breve?" I then realized what he was saying and mustered up a short winded "Nah". He let me up. Then we pretty much did the same thing again. Toyed with me, tied me up, and again inquired if I could "breathe". Again I said "Nah", and he let me up again. Anyway, like I said before in an above reply, there is always somebody out there that can whip your ass. Regardless of height or weight. I wouldn't want to have that guy come at me in an alley, and I'm 6'3" and (was) around 210 at the time. So with all due respect, you choose your form of self defense and I'll choose mine.
    watch your top knot !

  24. #74
    Regular Member Animus's Avatar
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    Did Trayvon know that he could've killed Zimmerman? Was that his intention? Teens don't fight to kill. What's more likely is that Trayvon just wanted to teach him a lesson for following him (assuming Zimmerman's account of events is to be believed). He was aiming for assault rather than murder.

    I said deadly force would be warranted, but I questioned the necessity of a weapon. If you are snake to unholster and fire a concealed pistol, you're equally as able to block the punches, slip an arm over his shoulder and pull him back into a guillotine and end the fight. Zimmerman's injuries weren't even serious much less debilitating enough to prevent him from defending himself.
    Last edited by Animus; 05-20-2012 at 03:42 PM.

  25. #75
    Regular Member Animus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    Back in my younger days, I was a martial artist and part-time instructor. (first degree black belt) I went to Pittsburgh to check out different dojos. I went into one dojo and met a little asian guy that was a 7th degree black belt. He was a real nice guy but who's english was a little hard to understand. He asked if I wanted to go out on the mats and "practice a little". He told me to attack him. So I came at him, he blocked a few strikes, he came at me, I blocked a few strikes. Upon doing that, I was pretty proud of the fact that I just held my own against a 7th degree black belt. But that pride was short lived. Little did I know that he was just toying with me. He came back at me and I don't even know what he did. But I was on the mat with him on me like ugly on an ape. Twisted up like pretzel and couldn't breathe. He said,in broken english, "you breve"? I, with the very little breath I had left, said "huh?" He said again, "you breve?" I then realized what he was saying and mustered up a short winded "Nah". He let me up. Then we pretty much did the same thing again. Toyed with me, tied me up, and again inquired if I could "breathe". Again I said "Nah", and he let me up again. Anyway, like I said before in an above reply, there is always somebody out there that can whip your ass. Regardless of height or weight. I wouldn't want to have that guy come at me in an alley, and I'm 6'3" and (was) around 210 at the time. So with all due respect, you choose your form of self defense and I'll choose mine.
    The typical attacker won't be nanadan. Discipline and ethics are also taught, and any person that reaches the level to be dangerous won't be the type of person to go out and assault people in alleyways. That type of person is weeded out early. What's more likely will be the punk that watches too much UFC, and that guy is no danger to anyone with even an hour of real training.
    Last edited by Animus; 05-20-2012 at 03:43 PM.

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