Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Promote, do not Provoke!

  1. #1
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Uvalde, Texas
    Posts
    665

    Promote, do not Provoke!

    Promote, do not Provoke!

    Just IMHO....but is this not what we are all about?
    Last edited by zekester; 05-16-2012 at 01:16 PM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  2. #2
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    437
    Though I agree in principle, who is doing the provoking? At most an OC-er is provoking the public to show their ignorance, the LEOs to show their lack of knowledge about the Law.

    Provocation would be trying to do more than the law allowed such as going into a post office to challenge the law or going into a school zone en masse to challenge the law. IMO, OC-ers who are being political are not being provocative. In fact they are just walking peacefully. Yes, when challenged they provoke the person in error to come up against the real laws and learn they're wrong and get judgements, but these are a very small minority. I just don't know how to promote 2A rights and be any less provocative in the initial action that the political OC-ers are being.

    Is running a cam and challenging the wrong words of those who stop and threaten you provocative? Not on the part of the OC-er. YES, it's foolish to argue with the beat cop in the middle of the street. But it's not provocation, IMO, except in very rare instances.

    Let us know how they can do it better, please.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  3. #3
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Uvalde, Texas
    Posts
    665
    Just go about your daily lives.....don't go out of the way if it is legal...if the situation represents itself, go all out.

    There just seems to be some that "WANT" interaction with the LEO...How can this be positve?
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    Just go about your daily lives.....don't go out of the way if it is legal...if the situation represents itself, go all out.

    There just seems to be some that "WANT" interaction with the LEO...How can this be positve?
    And the old saying is - Don't get into an argument with somene carrying a gun.

    But what is the most common thing that anti's do? Start arguments with the person carrying the gun.

    As for "wanting interaction with the LEO" - perhaps you would accept a change of phrasing? There are some who may appear more confrontational than others. But when someone is trying mightily to violate yoyr rights, and doing it under the color of law, there might be a good reason to confront them about their misbehavior.

    Please do not fall into the trap of believing that "confrotation" is always a bad thing that involves yelling and arm waving while jumping up and down. A person can be confrontational as all get-out without ever raising their voice above a whisper.

    There are also those who may appear to be "trolling" for LEO interaction, but most reported events do seem to start with the fact that there is a history of LEO over-reaction/rights violation. IMNSHO things go south when the LAC OCer loses control - usually starting with raising their voice. It is hard to keep dulcet tomes when your rights are being trampled and ground into the dirt, but escalating into shouting just plays into the KEOs control issues.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    The only real LEO interaction I've had while carrying a firearm arose because I walked into a Wendy's and two were in line while four more were already sitting at a table. The only reason I didn't do an about face is that I thought it would look suspicious if I did.

    So, I just got in line behind the two who were there. One turned around, and noticed my firearm. I said something witty, like "Hello, how are you today?" He just nodded and faced back towards the menu.

    Such was interesting banter during my first and only face-to-face contact with an LEO while openly carrying a firearm.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  6. #6
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Uvalde, Texas
    Posts
    665
    Skid, I know what you are saying..

    All I was suggesting is to not go out of your way to Provoke a reaction....if it is legal in your town, go about your daily lives, but don't walk down the middle of the road just so you get attention......now....if your daily life requires you to walk down the middle of the road...then by all means do it.....but IMHO...It just puts a negative light on the entire movement...

    Don't get me wrong, the students at the lunch counter, the lady on the bus, can't drink out of a certain fountain...hell yeah make a scene...Rights are rights and I will support anyone that is exercising those rights....no I don't like the idea that a person will walk down the highway to provoke a reaction...I still support him!....I just think it is unnecessary....hell...it is already legal....Get stopped in walmart...gas station, drug store..or anywhere else that you have to go. Why go out of your way to piss people off, this cannot be good.

    Promote not Provoke
    Last edited by zekester; 05-17-2012 at 12:09 PM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  7. #7
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885
    zekester, I suspect you have a specific incident in mind. Why not tell us about it?

    In the meantime, many people seem to believe that the very presence of an armed individual is "provocative" and makes them "uncomfortable." My answer for that is the same as for any other politically correct BS.

    Nobody has any kind of "right" not to be offended, uncomfortable or any other feeling. They have a right not to have anyone harm them, not to control the non-aggressive actions of others to suit their sensibilities.

    When someone tells me the sight of my gun makes them "uncomfortable," I'm just as apt to say, "I'm sorry, but that's not my problem." If they are uncomfortable, they can move away or get over it.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  8. #8
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post

    When someone tells me the sight of my gun makes them "uncomfortable," I'm just as apt to say, "I'm sorry, but that's not my problem." If they are uncomfortable, they can move away or get over it.
    Yet it doesn't make them SO uncomfortable that they shy away and leave you alone. NO, they get up in your face and are confrontational. If they were so afraid and worried, they wouldn't do that. So it's just people being nosy, boorish and obnoxious - overly (self)-entitled people, imo.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  9. #9
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    zekester, I suspect you have a specific incident in mind. Why not tell us about it?

    In the meantime, many people seem to believe that the very presence of an armed individual is "provocative" and makes them "uncomfortable." My answer for that is the same as for any other politically correct BS.

    Nobody has any kind of "right" not to be offended, uncomfortable or any other feeling. They have a right not to have anyone harm them, not to control the non-aggressive actions of others to suit their sensibilities.

    When someone tells me the sight of my gun makes them "uncomfortable," I'm just as apt to say, "I'm sorry, but that's not my problem." If they are uncomfortable, they can move away or get over it.
    Makes one wonder how these people handle their feelings when around law enforcement.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  10. #10
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Makes one wonder how these people handle their feelings when around law enforcement.
    Because cops do not shoot innocent people....
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  11. #11
    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    zekester, I suspect you have a specific incident in mind. Why not tell us about it?
    I believe he is referring to an occurrence in the Missouri forum and perhaps not recieving the appropriate responses there. Thus a migration to a broader audience.

    In essence, an open carrier was open carrying, and may have single handedly ruined potenially beneficial legistlation for all Missourians. YMMV.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    ripley wv
    Posts
    144
    I have had one LEO encounter. I went to get some fishing suppiles at a one register sporting goods store. When I came around the end of the isle next to the counter he was standing at the counter talking with the cashier. Now what to do? hide till he leaves, duck out of sight till he leaves.No walked up to the cashier lay my things down let her ring me up and nod back at the head nod the State Trooper gave as I walk past him. My self defence weapon on his side while I checked out. I hope all my LEO encounters goes like this.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    I believe he is referring to an occurrence in the Missouri forum and perhaps not receiving the appropriate responses there. Thus a migration to a broader audience.

    In essence, an open carrier was open carrying, and may have single-handedly ruined potentially beneficial legislation for all Missourians. YMMV.
    Odd how a OCer, lawfully OCing, violated his own rights, garnering adverse publicity (posting on Youtube don't help), thereby extinguishing any chance (like there really was a chance given the make-up of the house and senate) for full preemption in Missouri this year.

    Odd in-deed.....
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Uvalde, Texas
    Posts
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    I believe he is referring to an occurrence in the Missouri forum and perhaps not recieving the appropriate responses there. Thus a migration to a broader audience.

    In essence, an open carrier was open carrying, and may have single handedly ruined potenially beneficial legistlation for all Missourians. YMMV.
    Not looking for an "appropriate" response...not sure there are any...Just thinking out loud, and want all to realize, that all actions will get a reaction,(Newtons Law I think?..lol) it is the source/type of action which will decide what reaction you will recieve.

    (ok...Newton was opposite and equal, we know this not to be true in the OC world!)
    Last edited by zekester; 05-18-2012 at 10:40 AM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  15. #15
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    N.W. Pa.
    Posts
    406
    I always mind my Ps and Qs, especially while I'm OCing. Holding the door for people, saying "Thank you" to the sales clerk, have a nice day, whatever. I think people see that you are a decent person and not some maniac who wants to shoot up the place. There's a large convenient store I go into pretty regularly and it's always busy. There has been about 3 times now that I've been there while an armored truck was making a pick-up. I know they have seen my gun. That feels a little weird. I just go about my business and everything's fine.
    watch your top knot !

  16. #16
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Uvalde, Texas
    Posts
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    I always mind my Ps and Qs, especially while I'm OCing. Holding the door for people, saying "Thank you" to the sales clerk, have a nice day, whatever. I think people see that you are a decent person and not some maniac who wants to shoot up the place. There's a large convenient store I go into pretty regularly and it's always busy. There has been about 3 times now that I've been there while an armored truck was making a pick-up. I know they have seen my gun. That feels a little weird. I just go about my business and everything's fine.
    +1
    Last edited by zekester; 05-21-2012 at 11:52 AM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •