Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by Jared
One, if not the best damn post I have ever read on this forum. Go Jared!
Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
Excuse me Mr. Holier than though. You have no problem with CPL holders losing the right to carry a MI pistol, so what makes you so god like to think that ******* away others abilities to carry in this bill is so right?
My god don't get a good bill passed, just jump at the first **** they offer (yet again) and be happy.
Look in the mirror before you complain about other people causing others to lose something.
One, if not the best damn post I have ever read on this forum. Go Jared!
Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
“A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.
“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington
I just would rather not take away a protection for 7+million people, and I am fully aware that not even close to that many will use that protection. But if we remove it for one then everyone has to suffer due to that. We get so caught up in an idea that we don't stop to think about what it may cost us if we get it.
I would be all for if:
1. The system remained to get a CPL should someone want it.
2. There were no restrictions on where a concealed/open gun could be taken.
3. Little to no cost for the license should someone want it.
And 1 or 2 other small tweaks as well. The last effort to get all the PFZ's removed failed, so I don't see unrestricted carry with no license system coming anytime soon. Lets concetrate on that first then start working on something else.
If we think to big to fast we rush to get nothing done. One fight at a time.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776
Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!
They arent going to do anything for CPL holders, so lets go after the majority of peoples problems, 234d and transport.
Last edited by stainless1911; 05-28-2012 at 07:14 PM.
Ding, Ding, Ding We have a winner.
I can not understand why so many so called 2A supporters just don't get it. So many want to be Robin Hood and take from one group to give to another. Real 2A supporters would be for NOBODY losing ANYTHING they currently have.
Yes purchase permits and registration suck, but allowing one person to get in trouble because they lost a protection, shouldn't be even considered by a true 2A supporter.
+1
Perhaps the bill could be amended so Permit to Purchases would be valid for 5 years and it could be reused? It could be sold as a way to bypass NICS and it could be optional. That would solve this problem.
I don't see how any "2A supporter" could ever support registration under any circumstance. Setting aside the fact that registration was written and passed by subhuman racists pieces of garbage.
Registration needs to go. My other post explains the gun free school act. Besides, off duty state and local cops would be in the same boat if they don't have a CPL. They aren't going to call in the feds to enforce it.
I consider myself a 2A Supporter since I've actually done a few things (unlike most people on this forum) for the 2A in Federal Court and a few other legislative things in other states... and I want to see registration go.
Do I understand why MOC is neutral on the bill??? Yes
Do I blame MOC for making this decision??? No
Do I think the decision for many people to be against this bill because of (insert a reason) just like some people were against SB 59 because gun owners are their own worst enemies????
Yes
Are Michigan gun owners so beat up into the ground that they have no idea how bad they have it??? Yes
This, but with the changes in red.
Last edited by Small_Arms_Collector; 05-30-2012 at 04:11 PM.
Couldn't agree more! I lived in CO where open carry is legal, there is no PTP/Registration, OC/CC of a handgun is legal in a vehicle with no permit. CC is legal while hunting W/O a permit. Shotguns/rifles can be anywhere in a vehicle not in a case, provided there is not a round in the chamber (loaded mag/clip/tube is ok), and databases of firearms, owners, and transfers (unless by a FFL) are prohibited by state law.
Rand Paul 2016
Something similar to the IL FOID card? That was brought up on MGO and a crap-storm ensued.
Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine
I say bump everything down a notch. No purchase permit or registration and the current PP (minus the registration component)system becomes the new CPL system.
Bronson
Last edited by Bronson; 05-30-2012 at 09:54 PM.
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine
Yes...even if it were to be optional!
If Hitler did it, it must be bad!
Hitler claimed to be Christian, I'm sure he went to Church too...at some point!
Last edited by TheQ; 05-30-2012 at 10:00 PM.
Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.
I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.
Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.
Key word Permit. Roots in Permi ssion
Last edited by stainless1911; 05-30-2012 at 09:54 PM.
So you couldnt purchase a gun after getting screwed over on a driving violation?
I was replying to Jared's suggestion of a 5 year reusable Purchase Permit, which is essentially what the FOID card is but they've tacked a bunch of other crap onto it.
Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine
I know. But a permit is a permission slip just the same.
No comprende. Eliminate registration and the state level BG check for purchase and the current system for issuing PPs becomes the new system for issuing CPLs, so there would be fewer disqualifying convictions.
Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine
And it would nicely solve the 18 USC 922 problem.
Last edited by TheQ; 05-30-2012 at 10:14 PM.
Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.
I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.
Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.
My point would be exactly as you noted, fewer disqualifying (back door gun control) convictions.
Did we mention OPTIONAL!?!
You could buy a gun without it...!
Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.
I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.
Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.
That could be problematic perhaps? If you bought a gun with it, and the next one without it, would not only one of those be protected from the GFSZ?
You'd be protected from the Federal GFSZ as long as you had it or a CPL. It's not tied to a gun like a PP, rather it's tied to you!
Thus "Firearm OWNER ID"
Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.
I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.
Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.
fify
Last edited by PDinDetroit; 05-30-2012 at 10:14 PM.
Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.
^^ Thats more like it.
I was afraid of a mess like now. For example, if you get an LTP and register, you are (possibly) ok with the GFSZ. However, if you move to a different state, and buy the same make/model gun for example, and come back to visit, only the gun that was registered in MI would be covered under the (possible) GFSZ exemption. The other would not be covered, as there was nothing done that might qualify as an exemption.
Licensing the person, as you pointed out, would qualify that person to use their rights with each of their arms.
Last edited by stainless1911; 05-30-2012 at 10:17 PM.
So basically we are at exactly where I said we would be at. Gun owners being their own worst enemy.... nothing ever improving in this state.... one of 4 states stuck with registration.
Who needs the Brady Campaign in Michigan when we actually have gun owners who can do their job for them.
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