• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

What's the latest news on HB 5225?

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
A CPL turns a right into a privelidge. It is like a consent form to sign off on your rights so you can be categorized, tracked, and restricted in exchange for some privileges that they had no business taking away.

Your gun is to protect you from the criminal, your CPL is there to protect you from the government.

The .gov cannot give rights, it can only take them away. Michigans CPL laws and loopholes may be better than many other states, but it doesnt make it right.
 
Last edited:

Yooper

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
800
Location
Houghton County, Michigan, USA
A CPL turns a right into a privelidge. It is like a consent form to sign off on your rights so you can be categorized, tracked, and restricted in exchange for some privileges that they had no business taking away.

Your gun is to protect you from the criminal, your CPL is there to protect you from the government.

The .gov cannot give rights, it can only take them away. Michigans CPL laws and loopholes may be better than many other states, but it doesnt make it right.

If you have to get a permit to purchase, and register a firearm, the CPL turning a right into a privilege argument is irrelevant.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
I don't know why. I have always been an advocate for our CPL system. I think it could be enhanced to remove the Gun Free Zones, reduce the time and cost of getting one and adding the ability to protect property. It could be better, but it is pretty good right now.

Sad so very very sad.
 

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
I don't know why. I have always been an advocate for our CPL system. I think it could be enhanced to remove the Gun Free Zones, reduce the time and cost of getting one and adding the ability to protect property. It could be better, but it is pretty good right now.

so you have no problem having to ask the gov's permission to carry a concealed weapon? you have no problem paying a fee to have that "right", as long as the fee is reduced some? you have no problem with the hoops one has to jump through to exercise that "right" as long as the hoops are reduced some?

you have no problem with the fact that there are tons of completely unrelated crimes that can prevent you for obtaining a cpl for many, many years?
 

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
Sad so very very sad.

yes it is, and i am beginning to see why hardly any pro2A stuff gets passed in this state. half the "pro 2A" people have no problem asking for gov't permission to buy a weapon, no problem asking for gov't permission to carry that weapon, no problem paying the gov't for permission to carry that weapon, and no problem with the gov't keeping records on what firearms you buy. this last week has really been an eye opener for me.
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
yes it is, and i am beginning to see why hardly any pro2A stuff gets passed in this state. half the "pro 2A" people have no problem asking for gov't permission to buy a weapon, no problem asking for gov't permission to carry that weapon, no problem paying the gov't for permission to carry that weapon, and no problem with the gov't keeping records on what firearms you buy. this last week has really been an eye opener for me.

I'm stuck in the middle with you on this one guys. :D

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=d2zBBAxCxPo





Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
 

Yooper

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
800
Location
Houghton County, Michigan, USA
yes it is, and i am beginning to see why hardly any pro2A stuff gets passed in this state. half the "pro 2A" people have no problem asking for gov't permission to buy a weapon, no problem asking for gov't permission to carry that weapon, no problem paying the gov't for permission to carry that weapon, and no problem with the gov't keeping records on what firearms you buy. this last week has really been an eye opener for me.

I couldn't agree more, though I don't ever hope for a repeal of the CPL law, just hope it becomes optional for those who want reciprocity with other states.
 

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
A CPL turns a right into a privelidge. It is like a consent form to sign off on your rights so you can be categorized, tracked, and restricted in exchange for some privileges that they had no business taking away.

Your gun is to protect you from the criminal, your CPL is there to protect you from the government.

The .gov cannot give rights, it can only take them away. Michigans CPL laws and loopholes may be better than many other states, but it doesnt make it right.

I thought it was the Second Amendment? Also if your statement is true, wouldn't getting rid of the CPL also get rid of your "protection from the Goverment"?

so you have no problem having to ask the gov's permission to carry a concealed weapon? you have no problem paying a fee to have that "right", as long as the fee is reduced some? you have no problem with the hoops one has to jump through to exercise that "right" as long as the hoops are reduced some?

you have no problem with the fact that there are tons of completely unrelated crimes that can prevent you for obtaining a cpl for many, many years?

Well, no not really. Also if your drunk and get caught flying a plane I don't think you should be totin a pistol either. Goes to character,,,,
 

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
892
Location
Michigan, USA
I don't know why. I have always been an advocate for our CPL system. I think it could be enhanced to remove the Gun Free Zones, reduce the time and cost of getting one and adding the ability to protect property. It could be better, but it is pretty good right now.

"Our" CPL system is utter garbage and it's pathetic. I'm sitting in Vermont typing this right now, a state that has had constitution carry (I know about optional carry licenses being a benefit) since 1903. You can even be 18 and carry.

Do you know how nice it is to be able to carry without any ID on you and to be held to the true standard of if you can own you can carry? It's pretty nice.

Regarding other constitution carry states, Arizona lost nothing when they went to con-carry, in fact, they even made the optional permit so the dis qualifiers mirror federal law.

Wyoming lost nothing, neither did Alaska.

The Gun Free School's Act is a federal law (may be gone in a few years) and state and local LEO's can not enforce or detain you for it.

States that have a better carry permit system than MI....


Idaho
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Connecticut
Maine
Indiana
Georgia
Alabama
Mississippi
Utah
Arizona
Washington
South Dakota
Iowa
Wisconsin

In other words... Michigan's license to carry and the laws are utter garbage... How many other states have people arguing over repealing a registration law that was written by the Klu Klux Klan????..... ZERO
 

Super Trucker

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
263
Location
Wayne County, MI.
yes it is, and i am beginning to see why hardly any pro2A stuff gets passed in this state. half the "pro 2A" people have no problem asking for gov't permission to buy a weapon, no problem asking for gov't permission to carry that weapon, no problem paying the gov't for permission to carry that weapon, and no problem with the gov't keeping records on what firearms you buy. this last week has really been an eye opener for me.

Excuse me Mr. Holier than though. You have no problem with CPL holders losing the right to carry a MI pistol, so what makes you so god like to think that ******* away others abilities to carry in this bill is so right?

My god don't get a good bill passed, just jump at the first turd they offer (yet again) and be happy.

Look in the mirror before you complain about other people causing others to lose something.
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
"Our" CPL system is utter garbage and it's pathetic. I'm sitting in Vermont typing this right now, a state that has had constitution carry (I know about optional carry licenses being a benefit) since 1903. You can even be 18 and carry.

Do you know how nice it is to be able to carry without any ID on you and to be held to the true standard of if you can own you can carry? It's pretty nice.

Regarding other constitution carry states, Arizona lost nothing when they went to con-carry, in fact, they even made the optional permit so the dis qualifiers mirror federal law.

Wyoming lost nothing, neither did Alaska.

The Gun Free School's Act is a federal law (may be gone in a few years) and state and local LEO's can not enforce or detain you for it.

States that have a better carry permit system than MI....


Idaho
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Connecticut
Maine
Indiana
Georgia
Alabama
Mississippi
Utah
Arizona
Washington
South Dakota
Iowa
Wisconsin

In other words... Michigan's license to carry and the laws are utter garbage... How many other states have people arguing over repealing a registration law that was written by the Klu Klux Klan????..... ZERO


One, if not the best damn post I have ever read on this forum. Go Jared!:cool:


Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
 

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
I just would rather not take away a protection for 7+million people, and I am fully aware that not even close to that many will use that protection. But if we remove it for one then everyone has to suffer due to that. We get so caught up in an idea that we don't stop to think about what it may cost us if we get it.

I would be all for if:


1. The system remained to get a CPL should someone want it.
2. There were no restrictions on where a concealed/open gun could be taken.
3. Little to no cost for the license should someone want it.

And 1 or 2 other small tweaks as well. The last effort to get all the PFZ's removed failed, so I don't see unrestricted carry with no license system coming anytime soon. Lets concetrate on that first then start working on something else.

If we think to big to fast we rush to get nothing done. One fight at a time.
 

Super Trucker

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
263
Location
Wayne County, MI.
I just would rather not take away a protection for 7+million people, and I am fully aware that not even close to that many will use that protection. But if we remove it for one then everyone has to suffer due to that. We get so caught up in an idea that we don't stop to think about what it may cost us if we get it.

I would be all for if:


1. The system remained to get a CPL should someone want it.
2. There were no restrictions on where a concealed/open gun could be taken.
3. Little to no cost for the license should someone want it.

And 1 or 2 other small tweaks as well. The last effort to get all the PFZ's removed failed, so I don't see unrestricted carry with no license system coming anytime soon. Lets concetrate on that first then start working on something else.

If we think to big to fast we rush to get nothing done. One fight at a time.


Ding, Ding, Ding We have a winner.



I can not understand why so many so called 2A supporters just don't get it. So many want to be Robin Hood and take from one group to give to another. Real 2A supporters would be for NOBODY losing ANYTHING they currently have.

Yes purchase permits and registration suck, but allowing one person to get in trouble because they lost a protection, shouldn't be even considered by a true 2A supporter.
 

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
892
Location
Michigan, USA
Ding, Ding, Ding We have a winner.



I can not understand why so many so called 2A supporters just don't get it. So many want to be Robin Hood and take from one group to give to another. Real 2A supporters would be for NOBODY losing ANYTHING they currently have.

Yes purchase permits and registration suck, but allowing one person to get in trouble because they lost a protection, shouldn't be even considered by a true 2A supporter.

Perhaps the bill could be amended so Permit to Purchases would be valid for 5 years and it could be reused? It could be sold as a way to bypass NICS and it could be optional. That would solve this problem.

I don't see how any "2A supporter" could ever support registration under any circumstance. Setting aside the fact that registration was written and passed by subhuman racists pieces of garbage.

Registration needs to go. My other post explains the gun free school act. Besides, off duty state and local cops would be in the same boat if they don't have a CPL. They aren't going to call in the feds to enforce it.

I consider myself a 2A Supporter since I've actually done a few things (unlike most people on this forum) for the 2A in Federal Court and a few other legislative things in other states... and I want to see registration go.

Do I understand why MOC is neutral on the bill??? Yes

Do I blame MOC for making this decision??? No

Do I think the decision for many people to be against this bill because of (insert a reason) just like some people were against SB 59 because gun owners are their own worst enemies????

Yes

Are Michigan gun owners so beat up into the ground that they have no idea how bad they have it??? Yes
 

Small_Arms_Collector

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Eastpointe Michigan
Perhaps the bill could be amended so Permit to Purchases would be valid for life and it could be reused? It could be sold as a way to bypass NICS and it could be optional. That would solve this problem.

I don't see how any "2A supporter" could ever support registration under any circumstance. Setting aside the fact that registration was written and passed by subhuman racists pieces of garbage.

Registration needs to go. My other post explains the gun free school act. Besides, off duty state and local cops would be in the same boat if they don't have a CPL. They aren't going to call in the feds to enforce it.

I consider myself a 2A Supporter since I've actually done a few things (unlike most people on this forum) for the 2A in Federal Court and a few other legislative things in other states... and I want to see registration go.

Do I understand why MOC is neutral on the bill??? Yes

Do I blame MOC for making this decision??? No

Do I think the decision for many people to be against this bill because of (insert a reason) just like some people were against SB 59 because gun owners are their own worst enemies????

Yes

Are Michigan gun owners so beat up into the ground that they have no idea how bad they have it??? Yes

This, but with the changes in red.
 
Last edited:
Top