Fountain Walmat Night Manager experience

I was told to leave Walmart in Fountain Colorado because I was open carrying. The information is below. I called the home office Tuesday and the guy told me, "Well, it is private property", and then gave me a survey on his knowledge of the subject. He said he would pass it on and I should get a call, but I haven't so I got on line and did it over the internet. I will let you know how it turns our.

My letter to Walmart:

I called your offices with a complaint and they deemed it unnecessary to call me back. They thought it was much better to give me a survey on the person I talked to. Give me a break.

I am what is known in my state as an open carrier. I carry a sidearm on my hip. This is totally legal in Colorado and I have carried and shopped at your store (1273) for many years. I have open carried for the last two years, including in your store.

However, I went to your store at 10:30 pm Monday (5-14-12) and your night manager told me I would have to take my sidearm outside and then I could shop. I told him Walmart goes by local laws and he said no, they did not allow firearms. I sk him why signs were not posted and he said he didn't have to post signs...our laws require them. The only correct information he gave me was your stores were private property. He said I could only carry in my state with a permit in Colorado. He was dead wrong. Then his lack of knowledge was glaringly apparent as he continued to inform me that I could not open carry without papers. I told him he better learn the laws and left.

I do not have to shop at your company stores. There are many in my area who really want my money in this economic downturn. Money is tight and I shop where I am wanted as a customer and treated that way. My experience Monday night told me you have plenty of income and mine was not wanted. If this is corporates policies, I will go elsewhere to do my shopping.

Do you know the managers name? I would contact both the General Manager and the District Manager as well. I carry at the one on Platte and the one on Powers and they don't care, even if they did notice.

I'd contact the daytime manager.
I've OC'd at 3 WM's in the area and never had an issue. That doesn't mean there will not be one..

Word of advice... DO NOT argue when they ask you to leave, all he had to do was call PD at that point and it becomes a trespass.. Don't lose your 2a rights over a silly moronic liberal A-hat manager.. =)


--Rob

jhco50 said:

Then his lack of knowledge was glaringly apparent as hsk him why signs were not posted and he said he didn't have to post signs...our laws require them. .

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Why did you feel the need to bring up posting signs? If signs are not posted why give a business the idea to post them? Also what do you mean by "our laws require them"? There is no law in CO that I know of that requires a business to post signs listing their rules. Just as there is no law, that I am aware of, that requires us to follow a posted list of rules.

jhco50 said:

I was told to leave Walmart in Fountain Colorado because I was open carrying.

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Yet another ignorant putz rises to the "stellar" rank of a Walmart night manager.

I went to your store at 10:30 pm Monday (5-14-12) and your night manager told me I would have to take my sidearm outside and then I could shop.

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I'd have told him, "Well, Sir, it's a might difficult to shop your store while in the parking lot. Are you going to bring your merchandise outside for me to review?

I told him Walmart goes by local laws and he said no, they did not allow firearms.

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I think our next Colorado Meeting ought to be around 10:30 pm Monday at the Fountain Walmart...

I sk him why signs were not posted and he said he didn't have to post signs...our laws require them. The only correct information he gave me was your stores were private property. He said I could only carry in my state with a permit in Colorado. He was dead wrong. Then his lack of knowledge was glaringly apparent as he continued to inform me that I could not open carry without papers. I told him he better learn the laws and left.

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Yes, he was wrong, but you should never mention anything about posting signs! Dagnabbit, too many businesses around town have learned that trick already. You might like going elsewhere, but I save a lot of money on groceries by shopping at Walmart. I do NOT want them to start posting!

since9 said:

Yet another ignorant putz rises to the "stellar" rank of a Walmart night manager.


I think our next Colorado Meeting ought to be around 10:30 pm Monday at the Fountain Walmart...

Yes, he was wrong, but you should never mention anything about posting signs! Dagnabbit, too many businesses around town have learned that trick already. You might like going elsewhere, but I save a lot of money on groceries by shopping at Walmart. I do NOT want them to start posting!

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heh, yeah, I OC there way to often to have some ID10T Manager, clueless at that, posting signs.. Wonder if he's the same manager that walked me out of the store when I bought the 10/22 there? hummm...

--Rob

jhco50 - I suspect that this night manager was already well into his "night watch" heebie-jeebies (condition orange) mode when you showed up wearing a handgun.

I believe that both you , and him had a shared concern about the heightened risk of becoming the victim of a violent crime in the parking lot of a Walmart at 10:30 P.M.

I'm concerned that Walmart is on a trajectory that is increasingly more and more gun-shy. You know - guns are capable of emitting stray bullets without notice-@#%&. Upon complying with the manager's instructions to leave the store with my gun -I might have let him know that I had "rolled back " my wallet - as well as my intended $ XXX.00 purchase, since he apparently did not value my safety, or respect my lawful right to be able to defend myself in case of criminal confrontation while on the store's premises.

A truly sad commentary indeed - that the fact totally escapes this manager that your visibly armed presence in the store at that time of night provides second-hand security for HIM, and the rest of the Walmart staff, as well as other customers brave enough to expose themselves to the documented criminal hazards associated with visiting a Walmart at that time of night.

No - "we don't need no stinking" .....SIGNS - or the subject even being brought up - please...

An opportunity for a DAYTIME visit to the same store for a little chat with the management.

I find it ironic that the Walmart stores experiencing the highest incidence of petty and violent crime tend to be the most resistant to the presence of an obvious crime deterrent.

jhco50 said:

I told him Walmart goes by local laws and he said no, they did not allow firearms.

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Howdy Amigo!
I believe the next question from me would have been "Thank you for that information. Now if you would please show me the corporate policy where that is stated? If what you say is correct, then I need to alert thousands upon thousands of local gun owners across our state who carry both openly and concealed and shop at Walmart so they can avoid violating of your policy and shop elsewhere."

Let him mull that over as you agree to take your pistol to the car. Then respond, "I hope I ain't assaulted on my way back from the car while unarmed because that'd be one heck of a liability issue (i.e. lawsuit) for Walmart. You do provide security for your customers, do you not?"

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

RFrampton said:

Do you know the managers name? I would contact both the General Manager and the District Manager as well. I carry at the one on Platte and the one on Powers and they don't care, even if they did notice.

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No I don't know his name, but I think you are right and if they don't call today I will start talking to the other managers you mention. I have carried in the Fountain store quite often for two years.

Beau said:

Why did you feel the need to bring up posting signs? If signs are not posted why give a business the idea to post them? Also what do you mean by "our laws require them"? There is no law in CO that I know of that requires a business to post signs listing their rules. Just as there is no law, that I am aware of, that requires us to follow a posted list of rules.

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True, I may have overstepped on both accounts.

jhco50 said:

True, I may have overstepped on both accounts.

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No biggie. Instead of saying I didn't see any signs I've just said something like "I'm sorry, I wasn't aware.

Howdy Folks!
One of my friends is a "Public Relations Manager" for a Walmart near where I work. Since this thread was on my mind, and we were working together tonight, I asked him about this situation in particular. Among things he said were:

(words to this effect): "I didn't know open carry was legal until you told me about it!"
"That manager should never have approached your friend for carrying his sidearm"

"Maybe you remember a few years back when a woman was approached by a manger and told to leave the store or cover up when she stopped to nurse her baby at a Walmart in Longmont? Well, he should never have confronted her. She was doing nothing wrong. Next thing, a whole bunch of women came to that Walmart to hold a 'nurse in' demonstration. It made national headlines and gave the company a black eye. Unless there is something much more going on, the manager should leave people alone."

"That manager was wrong to confront your friend. How could he know the gentleman wasn't an off duty police officer, private investigator, detective, or bounty hunter like you?"

My friend's sentiment seemed to be that the night manager in this story is, what he described as "A jerk!"
He also suggested the manager in question was acting out his own bias rather than following corporate policy.
"Let's say, for argument, the manager's name was Bob." My friend continued. "He needs to understand that it isn't Bob's store. It's Walmart's store. He cannot simply exercise his own bias about handguns being carried by customers. It is Walmart's store, and so long as he is working as a representative of Walmart, he'd better follow Walmart policy; not his own attitude or bias. He should no more have approached your friend who was peacefully shopping in a Walmart store than the manager in Loveland did when confronting a nursing mother. It ain't his call!"

I told my friend what I had posted on the forum. About how I'd have asked to see the policy so I could go on the internet and alert thousands of armed citizens that Walmart might impose on them as happened in Fountain. My friend said "The guy probably doesn't even know how to access corporate policy, and worse, even if he did, probably couldn't find it!"

Now I'm thinking that maybe a meet up at that Walmart, a demonstration if you will, might have positive impact after all. It worked out well enough for nursing mothers. And a bit of media attention might set things straight.
In both incidents, the one in Longmont and the other in Fountain,.... something sucked, and it wasn't just babies!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

M-Taliesin said:

Howdy Folks!

Now I'm thinking that maybe a meet up at that Walmart, a demonstration if you will, might have positive impact after all. It worked out well enough for nursing mothers. And a bit of media attention might set things straight.
In both incidents, the one in Longmont and the other in Fountain,.... something sucked, and it wasn't just babies!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

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I am all for that.. I OC to promote awareness, I've been open carrying in Colorado for more than a few years and almost all of my interactions with people have been positive.
I just do my thing and many times almost forget I have a sidearm (I was at CJC tonight and almost walked in.. that would have been interesting lol) ..

At any rate, might be an opportunity to put a positive spin on things.. Anyone [else] thought of organizing? Media? etc?

--Rob

Using the private premises of a Walmart store as a stage for an OC demonstration would not nurture increased public acceptance of the right to carry openly in case of confrontation.

My use of the term "nurture" fits in pretty well with the comparison made to a breast feeding "shop-in" demonstration. The function of a holstered handgun is not quite the same as a mothers' nipples, and a large group of them probably would not be received with as much deference.

We can either be the "salt of the earth" in nurturing acceptance for OC in Colorado, or we can adopt the occupy movement's " pepper up your nose !" style of advancing their cause.

"SALT" - is usually sprinkled about rather sparingly. The store in question may just need a "pinch" more coming through its doors on any given day - or night. I will personally consider giving that particular store some of MY business whenever I'm in that area. Who knows - maybe some of us will cross paths there sometime and have a Big Mac together ?

Well- that's my pinch of "salt".

rushcreek2 said:

Using the private premises of a Walmart store as a stage for an OC demonstration would not nurture increased public acceptance of the right to carry openly in case of confrontation.


"SALT" - is usually sprinkled about rather sparingly. The store in question may just need a "pinch" more coming through its doors on any given day - or night. I will personally consider giving that particular store some of MY business whenever I'm in that area. Who knows - maybe some of us will cross paths there sometime and have a Big Mac together ?

Well- that's my pinch of "salt".

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Good point.. I just thought of this as religious zealots, I hate having them shove it down my throat, perhaps the OC demonstration should be a little less .. overt..

I'd be interested in some sort of organized awareness group.. ?

--Rob

While exiting the front door of my neighborhood local " King Soopers " affiliate an hour ago, I was treated to a rather strong dose of parking lot road-rage. Big-Red Ram picky-up "Dude" seemed to be unaware of the fact that pedestrians have always had the right of way in parking lots.

"Dude" apparently had some issue with my demonstrating this fact by way of not performing a proper "stop -look & listen" for his Big-Red Ram, and forcing him to actually apply his brakes. So "Dude" proceeds to show me a thing or two by doing a sudden pedal-to-the-metal lurch & brake slam about 6 feet short of me, my grocery basket , and fortunately - my holstered Glock 23.

I ignored him, as I proceeded along my steady course to my BIGGER ( and much prettier) Chevy 2500 Sierra 4X4- which ironically just happened to be parked right next to where he parked Big-Red. I acted as if I wasn't even aware of his existence, all the while expecting a proper dressing-down for my stupid behavior. "Dude" surprisingly had nothing to say to me - at all. He must have experienced some sort of epiphany. How precious !

An armed society is a polite society.

Last night, after leaving the Gold Hill Division (CSPD) for our weekly Citizens Academy, I stopped by Sonic for some grub. At around 10 pm, I proceeded to the nearby Walmart (707 S. 8th) thinking as it's the nearest Walmart to the one in Fountain, I'd gauge the reaction of people there, first, before proceeding to the one in Fountain next week.

Nothing. Zero, zip, nada. No stares, no eyeballing, no quick glances... Tons tattoos, though!

Rush, your story parallels what did happen at the Walmart last night:

As I was walking out I crossed paths with the jerk who assaulted me at my apartment complex pool in July, 2009. He was sporting a shiner (left eye) and as he approached me, I could see he recognized me, the same as I was recognizing him. He spotted my firearm almost immediately, tensed. I thought about saying something like, "Hey! Still loosing fights, eh?" but instead I simply looked him straight in the eyes and said in a low, even tone, "Good evening..."

On a side note, the "assault" that summer was pretty lame. I had a beef with his friend, who'd stolen my towel and sunglasses. Neither of them nor their entourage were members of the apartment complex. Long story short, the guy sucker-punched me, popping me twice in my left cheekbone, to no effect, at which point I said, "Knock it off!" That and the fact he had no effect sobered him up a little. When his friend, who was far larger (my size) tried shoving me in the pool, I Aikido'd him into the pool, instead. Confrontation over.

It was creepy running into him again. He's definitely not sheep. I peeked over my shoulder several times as I proceeded to my vehicle, just to make sure he wasn't sneaking up on me with a rock or something.

I did call the police this morning and ask if they wanted an update, but I didn't have a name, address, phone number, or license plate, so they said, "well, not really." I thought about waited for him to come out and so I could get his license plate, but discretion being the better part of valor, I decided not to pull a Zimmerman, and decided to leave, instead.

It is often asserted by those who prefer concealed carry only - that criminals "don't know who is armed and who isn't". True - but in reality, criminals - just like sheep - are conditioned to automatically assume that NO ONE is armed.

OC works to stifle anti-social urges. If Big-Red had wanted to get verbally hostile at any point I would have endeavored to be firm - but POLITE, and respectful while delivering 2 remedial messages ( 1. The LAW , and 2. Civil manners by example.) Also -I must always assume that "Bully-Dudes" may be been armed as well. The sight of a holstered handgun should be a subtle prompt for social re-calibration.

My holstered handgun isn't going to be the object of a passing glance. A predatory criminal, or a social bully on the other hand will instinctively do a quick threat assessment "scan" of their object of immediate focus, and THEY WILL NOTICE.

Some people simply are not educated about firearms, other than Hollywood and the main stream media. So when they are on a supervisory shift (and likely a newbie) and they see something they are not properly educated about, panic mode kicks in.

It is interesting and informative to read these posts. Now that my company has left, I have more time to pursue this and I think I will talk to the store manager Monday.

You guys may not know this, but I think Since9 owes me a cup of coffee. Say....Monday about noon? LOL